Newbie seeks help, stuck in friend zone!

Explain how you've been teasing each other with kissing on the neck.

Well when she was with her boyfriend, she'd have a hickie or two, and I'd neg her about them. She mentioned she liked getting them, and I mentioned i gave star-shaped ones, (which I do) and she was so excited.

I asked if she wanted one, she seriously considered it... I bring it up sometimes, when she mentioned she was mad @ her dad, I proposed she go home with a star-shaped hickie, and again, she gave it some honest thought, and didn't just laugh it off.

I also negged her, "You're probably a sloppy kisser," to which she was like "Nooooo!" in a really cute way. Then I told her to "Prove it," and again, she thought about it. That's when I should have pulled the trigger. But that was a while ago, before I had real confidence with her, or had found this forum

Mmmhmmm. As I said somewhere . . . she thinks about it, but YOU pull the trigger.

t3h_v4rg4sm wrote:

That's when I should have pulled the trigger.

As the GI Joes say, "Knowing is half the battle".

Those are the times when you dont wait for her to say ok, you go in for the kiss.

So what if she gets her own membership...chances are she will then go alone and have to see you with another person...plus there will be no possability that she was just tagging along for a free ride. You would almost want her to go seperatly, then she gets to see you socializing and having fun without her. The reason i said guy or girl is both can help you.

If she sees you with another guy leading him around, helping him out and him following you around...it shows your a leader of men. If she sees you with a girl in the same scenario it shows your a desirable man, your social proofed and it will make her jealous...not the bad kind but the kind where she wants to compete for your attention. Best thing is even just hearing about it thru others can be enuff to have this effect on her. However if she sees it first hand thats even better.

O and if she ever asks why you havent texted/called etc...just go "Eh, ive been busy...besides you have a phone call whenever you like, its never a bother to hear from you." Do this kinda non-chalant, because after all its not a big deal and she could and should re-establish the communications. If not there are plenty of other girls out there who are more deserving of your time and attention.

Well, I don't think any of this is going to be an issue. I ended up going out with some friends tonight, and she *happened* to come along. My friend said he invited her, but I figured she wouldn't come.

I haven't IM'd her in a while, on Ka's advice. I don't know, maybe that's pissed her off. She was a bit awkward while we were out, I didn't get any eye contact, not a direct word from her the entire time.

My two guy friends, her, and I ended up seeing Frank Miller's "The Spirit." It was terrible, don't waste you $10 seeing it.

The ride home was a little less awkward, I made her laugh, but she was sitting shotgun and I was in the back, so still no eye contact. I'm not being awkward about the whole hand-holding-rejection thing, but she is.

Would it be advisable to confront her via IM? Perhaps a simple "Why were you so awkward tonight?" kind of thing? Not to sound like a schoolboy, but should I express anything in my away messages/facebook status?

In the meantime, I've got to find a new workout buddy, preferably female. THE ADVENTURE BEGINS! I'm not abandoning this girl, so keep throwing the advice at me, I'm always listening, and I'm still working on her

IM or text her "ignoring me now? Fine, see if I make you laugh anymore "

Don't go changing your facebook status etc. All unnecessary.

Just do that and the balls in her court.

Ignoring me now? Fine, see if I make you laugh anymore

DONE! ...now what? all i got was a lame "no, im not." from her.

Ouch.

"Cool. Let me know when you're not a grouch anymore so we can hang out again."

EDIT: That MAY not fit your personality. It's something I would say. I've learned that I can get away with sayings things a lot of guys can't. So, if this is the case, tweak it to fit you. This is one reason I normally don't straight out give word for word lines anymore.

Here's how it's gone down so far:

(8:20:25
PM) Me:
ignoring me now? fine, see if I make you laugh anymore

(8:20:26 PM) Her
: home---> wish
i could go for a pony ride =]
(8:20:33
PM) Her:
no im
not
(8:26:19
PM) Me:
o
(8:26:19
PM) Her
: home---> wish
i could go for a pony ride =]
(8:26:24
PM) Her:
yeah
(9:21:54
PM) Me:
let me know when ur not grouchy anymore so we can
hang/work out
(9:21:54
PM) Her
: cvs
*sigh*
(9:24:50 PM) Her:
im not grouchy,
i just have a lot of stuff to do
(9:25:17
PM) Her:
like the SAT
studying, roatest shit, spain crap and money
(9:28:03
PM) Me:
o
(9:28:08
PM) Me:
i gotta get on my road test stuff
(9:29:49
PM) Her:
yeah
(9:30:52
PM) Her:
and my mom is
like you cant get a real job because you have to have time to study
for sats
(9:31:00
PM) Her:
so im gonna be
babysitting like 3 days a week


...hmmm it's definitely an improvement!!! You guys saved my ass!

Have you guys talked about the hand holding thing? What if you said something the next time you guys go out like "Okay look, I'll sit next to you but don't try to hold my hand again. I don't give in [or depending on how she might take it, I don't put out] that easy." With a coy smile...?

No, we haven't talked about it. That definitely sounds like something I'd say, though. I've pulled the "What kind of a guy do you think I am?" line before, and things similar.

Also, any suggestions on the next move?

Do you see her at school every day?

We see each other in the halls; I don't have any classes with her though.

Karma wrote:

Have you guys talked about the hand holding thing? What if you said something the next time you guys go out like "Okay look, I'll sit next to you but don't try to hold my hand again. I don't give in [or depending on how she might take it, I don't put out] that easy." With a coy smile...?

Thats gold!

As for your AIM convo, i dont think its that great, on her part. She did not make any effort to reach out, made no apologies, and only talked about herself.

It seems every time you try and banter with her she is a grouch, and she not once reciprocated interest. Had she told me she was busy i woulda said "Everyone is busy, thats not an excuse." Afterall its not...junior/senior year is a busy time for everyone...shes not special...thats a bullshit answer and you dont have to go with it.

I say you leave things upto her in regards to intiating contact. Reward her with your time when she responds positively or shows interest...punish her by not paying her attention  (or calling her bs) when she does something that only benefits herself.

Above all, pursue other girls for now. My personal opinion is this girl sounds off and not worth your time. However if you insist on countinueing with her then at least do so without cutting urself off from other girls, at least until something definitive happens with her.

Yeah, I'm fairly sure I'm moving on to another girl. There are bigger fish to fry. I'll figure it out, there are a few girls I have in mind.

Not to say that I'm not open to suggestions from others in this matter...

It still seems like you have a chance with her just don't do anything stupid if you can help it. Meet other girls if you can don't be too needy but I wouldn't advise ignoring her completely. If you do that then she will think that you just wanted to have sex with her and because she wasn't gonna give it you lost interest. Hit all the attraction switches you can.

Virgins need slightly more attention than other girls but only a bit and you're gonna have to take things slow.

Make her laugh, get kino etc. Do the things what were getting you the IOIs in the place.

When it comes to the kiss try this. You must do it at the right time though, the IOIs have to be flooding in and you should get her to a high level of energy. Next time you hug kiss her gently on the cheak then release you're hold to arms lengh, stand up tall, look her dead in the eyes for 3-5 seconds whilst smiling. If she's smiling and looking you dead in the eyes or trangulasing move in slowly and go for the kiss. This has worked for me the last 10 times I've tried it.

The "few others you have in mind" . . . ALL should be gamed. Don't just pick one.

Well I plan to game all of them. Just gotta practice a bit, get good at it. I just borrowed The Game from my local library, I'll read it through ASAP.

Randy1random's suggestion with the little kiss on the cheek, then arm's length search for triangulation sounds like a good idea. If it comes to that, I'll definitely use it. I get the feeling I'm going to fall back into her good graces eventually...

Also, any tips on talking online to these girls? Perhaps some good ways to segue from a conversation on Instant Messenger to a date?

Along with The Game, you need to read Rules Of The Game and The Venusian Arts Handbook (the ebook) or the print version of that The Mystery Method How To Get Beautiful Women Into Bed.

Between those you will have all the basics down that you will keep referring back to throughout the process.

Where can I find the ebook?

Also, I do a lot of socializing on the internet... do you guys have any pointers on having instant messenger/facebook conversations with girls? Maybe on how to have those conversations segue into a date?

Well, someone on this thread has already pointed you in the direction for the online interactions.

The ebook can easily be found if you know anything about torrents. Or, join my Vault, lol.

Yeah the vault is exallent value for money. Action jackson is the man to ask about online game. is he still on the forum?

JSmooth is the goto guy when it comes to online dating or anything relating to girls and the internet. There are many posts on them too. Do a search.

Heres a post of mine, some examples.
http://www.tripps-pua-forum.com/online-game-f10/little-im-game-t1378.htm

See ya around.

Alright, I had this nice long reply all typed up and it didn't submit correctly. I dunno. Anyhow, I've been reading, researching, that kinda stuff.

What bothers me is how awkward this girl is being. She's being awfully childish about the whole thing. Maybe it's time to confront her? Or apologize, tell her my signals were mixed?

I've IM'd her here and there, getting generally short, introverted answers, usually one word. She used to be a bit more elaborate with her responses, and I actually enjoyed talking to her. I'm ready to move on to another girl, but I think I should repair this relationship first, even if it's just LJBF kinda stuff.

Any ideas on how to go about this?

If she's not willing to work with you on repairing, there's nothing you can do. Move on for now.