Last night I lost my tie, but I found myself

Ok.. So the title of the thread is a little melodramatic.. But check it out...

Not too long after we got to the club, I was opening sets when I encountered a tall HB 8 with short brown hair wearing the most horrendous skirt I have ever seen. I swear to god it looked like she made it herself. I bantered with her about her skirt and her sewing ability. I asked her what tribe she belonged to, and then I took my tie off and tied it around her head. She was a good sport about it and her group was amused. I went on working the room, forgetting about my tie. Later I see HB. She's not wearing the tie around her head any longer (duh.. it was a couple hrs later), but she wouldn't give it back to me. At first I played along, but later, I was like "shit, she's seriously not going to give me my tie back." She wanted me to come with her. I wasn't ready to leave the club, plus, I was more interested another HB I was gaming... Besides, it would be AFC to let her dictate where I'm going and what I'm doing based on a bargaining chip she held. I let her keep the tie. I hope she enjoys her trophy.

But that gave me an idea... I'm going to see how many girls I can get to let me tie my tie around their head and then take a picture with me while we're kissing... I'm going to start a whole album! Hey- some people collect stamps, I collect pictures of girls kissing me while wearing my tie around their head..

Brilliant idea...

It's like your calling card...

No offense Diesel, but I gave Zig hell for pulling a similar move when we were sarging, so I'm gonna have to give you hell too.

I know it's important to show that you lead and that you're dominant enough to attract a girl, but there is nothing that says that you will lose that attraction if you follow her once in a while! As I said, I gave Zig (not sure if you know him or not, but he's a decent PUA) hell and all he did, was eject from a set, because they ended up in front after they suggested we hit the smoke pit and he figured following would be AFC; if you're agreeing, then you're wrong, it isn't that big of a deal, it's just walking over to a different spot and the important thing is that they said, "Hey, come join us for a smoke." Now following shows that you're secure enough that you can let others lead sometimes, it shows you're not gonna try to totally dominate her and that there will be some equality and it shows you're interested, which is in large part what she's trying to figure out with this test and if you don't follow, then she assumes you weren't interested enough and moves on.

So, in your sceneario, she's interested, she's trying to keep you hooked by hanging on to your tie and assuming that you aren't gonna run away too soon. Now she invites you along with her, hoping to keep things going and maybe have a ONS, or number close later, but you decline and so she just assumes that you aren't interested enough and gains a tie out of the deal. She may have been completely willing to take you home that same night and give you some sweet loving and maybe she would have been the girl of your dreams that you would have married and lived happily ever after with, in a baby blue house, with a white picket fence, a golden retriever and 2.6 kids; only you blew the whole deal, because of your pride and strict rules.






I do so love the power of hyperbole.

Rye Lee wrote:

No offense Diesel, but I gave Zig hell for pulling a similar move when we were sarging, so I'm gonna have to give you hell too.

I know it's important to show that you lead and that you're dominant enough to attract a girl, but there is nothing that says that you will lose that attraction if you follow her once in a while! As I said, I gave Zig (not sure if you know him or not, but he's a decent PUA) hell and all he did, was eject from a set, because they ended up in front after they suggested we hit the smoke pit and he figured following would be AFC; if you're agreeing, then you're wrong, it isn't that big of a deal, it's just walking over to a different spot and the important thing is that they said, "Hey, come join us for a smoke." Now following shows that you're secure enough that you can let others lead sometimes, it shows you're not gonna try to totally dominate her and that there will be some equality and it shows you're interested, which is in large part what she's trying to figure out with this test and if you don't follow, then she assumes you weren't interested enough and moves on.

So, in your sceneario, she's interested, she's trying to keep you hooked by hanging on to your tie and assuming that you aren't gonna run away too soon. Now she invites you along with her, hoping to keep things going and maybe have a ONS, or number close later, but you decline and so she just assumes that you aren't interested enough and gains a tie out of the deal. She may have been completely willing to take you home that same night and give you some sweet loving and maybe she would have been the girl of your dreams that you would have married and lived happily ever after with, in a baby blue house, with a white picket fence, a golden retriever and 2.6 kids; only you blew the whole deal, because of your pride and strict rules.






I do so love the power of hyperbole.

I feel ya.. Honestly, not following her was more of a "I'm not ready to leave my friends, and I'm more interested in this other girl" than it was a "it's AFC if I follow".

Truth of the matter is that if I hadn't another girl I was gaming, and my friends were occupied.. I probably would have followed her to another club...

Cock Diesel wrote:

Ok.. So the title of the thread is a little melodramatic.. But check it out...

Not too long after we got to the club, I was opening sets when I encountered a tall HB 8 with short brown hair wearing the most horrendous skirt I have ever seen. I swear to god it looked like she made it herself. I bantered with her about her skirt and her sewing ability. I asked her what tribe she belonged to, and then I took my tie off and tied it around her head. She was a good sport about it and her group was amused. I went on working the room, forgetting about my tie. Later I see HB. She's not wearing the tie around her head any longer (duh.. it was a couple hrs later), but she wouldn't give it back to me. At first I played along, but later, I was like "shit, she's seriously not going to give me my tie back." She wanted me to come with her. I wasn't ready to leave the club, plus, I was more interested another HB I was gaming... Besides, it would be AFC to let her dictate where I'm going and what I'm doing based on a bargaining chip she held. I let her keep the tie. I hope she enjoys her trophy.

But that gave me an idea... I'm going to see how many girls I can get to let me tie my tie around their head and then take a picture with me while we're kissing... I'm going to start a whole album! Hey- some people collect stamps, I collect pictures of girls kissing me while wearing my tie around their head..

Great idea man. Roll with it. But, remember to push the envelope beyond the kiss for the pic!

Rye Lee wrote:

No offense Diesel, but I gave Zig hell for pulling a similar move when we were sarging, so I'm gonna have to give you hell too.

I know it's important to show that you lead and that you're dominant enough to attract a girl, but there is nothing that says that you will lose that attraction if you follow her once in a while! As I said, I gave Zig (not sure if you know him or not, but he's a decent PUA) hell and all he did, was eject from a set, because they ended up in front after they suggested we hit the smoke pit and he figured following would be AFC; if you're agreeing, then you're wrong, it isn't that big of a deal, it's just walking over to a different spot and the important thing is that they said, "Hey, come join us for a smoke." Now following shows that you're secure enough that you can let others lead sometimes, it shows you're not gonna try to totally dominate her and that there will be some equality and it shows you're interested, which is in large part what she's trying to figure out with this test and if you don't follow, then she assumes you weren't interested enough and moves on.

excellent advice!! I will sometimes allow a chick to grab my hand and take me to the dance floor, but i NEVER allow her to walk in front (holding hands) off the floor. its important to show her u are willing to have reasonable equality, just dont let her drag u everywhere

Cock Diesel wrote:

Rye Lee wrote:

No offense Diesel, but I gave Zig hell for pulling a similar move when we were sarging, so I'm gonna have to give you hell too.

I know it's important to show that you lead and that you're dominant enough to attract a girl, but there is nothing that says that you will lose that attraction if you follow her once in a while! As I said, I gave Zig (not sure if you know him or not, but he's a decent PUA) hell and all he did, was eject from a set, because they ended up in front after they suggested we hit the smoke pit and he figured following would be AFC; if you're agreeing, then you're wrong, it isn't that big of a deal, it's just walking over to a different spot and the important thing is that they said, "Hey, come join us for a smoke." Now following shows that you're secure enough that you can let others lead sometimes, it shows you're not gonna try to totally dominate her and that there will be some equality and it shows you're interested, which is in large part what she's trying to figure out with this test and if you don't follow, then she assumes you weren't interested enough and moves on.

So, in your sceneario, she's interested, she's trying to keep you hooked by hanging on to your tie and assuming that you aren't gonna run away too soon. Now she invites you along with her, hoping to keep things going and maybe have a ONS, or number close later, but you decline and so she just assumes that you aren't interested enough and gains a tie out of the deal. She may have been completely willing to take you home that same night and give you some sweet loving and maybe she would have been the girl of your dreams that you would have married and lived happily ever after with, in a baby blue house, with a white picket fence, a golden retriever and 2.6 kids; only you blew the whole deal, because of your pride and strict rules.






I do so love the power of hyperbole.

I feel ya.. Honestly, not following her was more of a "I'm not ready to leave my friends, and I'm more interested in this other girl" than it was a "it's AFC if I follow".

Truth of the matter is that if I hadn't another girl I was gaming, and my friends were occupied.. I probably would have followed her to another club...

Good stuff. You seem like you're becoming quite the PUA and I hate to see good guys become restricted by rules and end up missing out on what are often the more high value women, because the high value women know how to play the game and a lot of PUA isn't geared for really high confidence women imo.

Quote :

I hate to see good guys become restricted by rules and end up missing out on what are often the more high value women, because the high value women know how to play the game and a lot of PUA isn't geared for really high confidence women imo.

Amen.

Excuse me....(cough, cough).......

Define a high quality woman for one thing......wait if you do then that is your opinion, correct? Different strokes for different folks Rye.

For the record, isn't PUA also about being social all around? Even if it is an HB7 or below? (but thats just for the attractive scale) What if she is an HB5 but she is more intelligent and can carry on a coherent conversation? logistics, opinions, semantics, bla bla bla. In your opinion, what makes a high quality woman? Is it her social standings? Her attractiveness? Her intelligence?

To each man, his own!


And...isn't PUA about being geared or preparing for these high confidence women that PUA crave to game?..if not, then what is learning PU for? LOL

The game is gear for high quality women, shit we go from kissing girls we dont like to having our choice now... its beautiful!

To Juice and Par, I'd argue that "quality" and "value" are different things, although I understand how it is easy to see them as so closely related as to not make a difference, in my humble opinion, you're wrong.

In the context of women, when you are refering to a girl as high "quality", you are generally speaking about the quality of her attributes. This can be a variety of attributes and isn't limited to the physical realm, her abilty to hold up a conversation is of course a quality she possesses, her attractiveness is the obvious one that most guys place a great deal of importance upon and there are many other characteristics to be thought of as well.

When speaking of high "value" on the other hand, you aren't saying, "She's hot and intelligent, that makes her valuable." no, that makes her "quality". Value is something that is going to be determined more by supply and demand and her own reaction to the "economy" as it were. Now I understand that a lot of pickup is geared towards picking up the popular girls and the girls that everyone seems to want, but if you take a step back...ok maybe maybe a couple large paces back...yeah keep going...ok good, now you're out of the social conditioning and maybe you can notice that those girls are in actually, A DIME A DOZEN! They're fvcking EVERYWHERE and they're generally airheads and most closely resemble the upper class of several centuries ago, where girls had no use for intelligence and instead were merely trained to look beautiful so that one day a nice rich lord would marry them. How is that valuable? Take a good hard look around next time you're out in a sizeable social gathering and maybe you'll be able to spot the high value girls (it's actually pretty hard, cause a large part of it, as I'm about to tell you, is based upon social interaction and not looks, or social standing).

SOMETIMES those girls are running the big groups, but more often they are in smaller groups, or 2 and 3 sets. These girls have their shit together, they have jobs, they are going to school, they know how to converse, they are fun, they are good looking, they are intelligent and the most important thing, they know how to play the game. You go into a group of "quality" girls and they may play GAMES with you, but they don't know how to play THE GAME. Yes you will find high value girls in large groups, yes you will find them in places where you thought you would find only bimbos, but you're gonna be able to distinguish them, because they can play the game. You know WHY they can play the game? Simple, they have high value and they know it. Easiest way to spot a high value girl is to find someone that knows her value and will make you work for it, but usually without shields and bs, instead they throw sh.t tests your way.

Now you may disagree, that's completely up to you and as Par pointed out, to each their own, but I've tried to leave this as broadly defined and open as possible, because of that fact. As I said, the most prominent feature I've found in the high value women I've met, is that they know how to play the game and they know it's a game. Now unfortunately Par, as you brought up, there are women that fall into this category that aren't as attractive as most guys are looking for, so in that area, it's really in the eye of the beholder whether you think she's attractive enough to make it into that category for you, because personally I'm not gonna rate girls I find ugly as high value, merely because they meet all the other standards, they've got to meet the pre-requisite of being attractive to me first. Like I said though, there are a lot of attractive girls out there that aren't high value (especially in Calgary ), which is the thing that frustrates me the most about going out sarging.

I agree with Rye's definition of terms. I actually really dislike night game (and pretty much all sarging. I rather interact with the high value girls that I run into in the course of my high value life) for the fact that there aren't many girls I view as high value in clubs/bars. I often want to practice night game to get better at it, but have no motivation what-so-ever to talk to 99% of those girls. That's why I usually just talk to the girls who approach me throughout the night, since I am socially obligated to talk to them. Day game has always been what I enjoy.

Quote :

Like I said though, there are a lot of attractive girls out there that aren't high value (especially in Calgary Crying or Very sad ), which is the thing that frustrates me the most about going out sarging.

I'm trying to condense my thoughts (they would span a lengthy essay) so here is a concise version:

Matador once said something to the effect (paraphrased) "You want to feel like a high value man. But she wants to feel like a high value woman also. So you can't win everything, sometimes you have to let her win."

I think the flaw in the community is in part due to the fact all the material is written for the bottom of the social status ladder type of guys. That means, they have to put up a very strong act so they don't reveal their true nature. However, once you get to a certain point always putting that act up is bad. So many PUA's spend too much time trying to act alpha and worried about their actions, like the letting her lead him away. A female PUA instructor once discussed the difference between being an "Alpha" and being an "Alpha Omega": Dr. Cox would be an example of the Omega. Being alpha also has some neediness; you want something from the world, from the people around you, etc. It's just not a supplicating neediness.

Another flaw I find with the PUA community is the application of PUA rules past pick up. This is not Relationship Arts, this is the Pick Up arts. There is a distinct difference and although many things work in both, they shouldn't be treated the same.

Personally, I'm not agreeing with the viewpoint, but I will say this . . .

I have indeed picked up some very high quality women in the clubs, so I see nothing wrong with night game and being able to do that. Sure, a lot of the women in there aren't high quality, but there are some that are.

Also, yes it's true that PUA is geared to the guys at the bottom of the social ladder, because those are the guys that actually need PUA. Those are the ones that don't have a clue. Not saying other guys can't use it, because they can, but it's obviously geared in that direction.

And, as was pointed out before, PUA does in fact give guys the ability to choose the woman they want. Instead of settling, which means it does in fact help you to know how to get the high value women.

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Also, yes it's true that PUA is geared to the guys at the bottom of the social ladder, because those are the guys that actually need PUA. Those are the ones that don't have a clue. Not saying other guys can't use it, because they can, but it's obviously geared in that direction.

I meant that once those guys at the bottom of the social ladder start rising, they often don't realize what they were doing was an extreme to mask their former self. So they continue in that extreme, instead of realizing they don't have to be that way all the time because their inner game has grown.

My former self was a dooshebag who didnt love himself

L.A. Tripp wrote:

I have indeed picked up some very high quality women in the clubs, so I see nothing wrong with night game and being able to do that. Sure, a lot of the women in there aren't high quality, but there are some that are.

i agree. all these people try to tell me u cant find a non-STD girl or a good girl in a club. Even good/clean girls like to go out every once in a while. now the regulars at the club might not be all that good...

DTM wrote:

L.A. Tripp wrote:

I have indeed picked up some very high quality women in the clubs, so I see nothing wrong with night game and being able to do that. Sure, a lot of the women in there aren't high quality, but there are some that are.

i agree. all these people try to tell me u cant find a non-STD girl or a good girl in a club. Even good/clean girls like to go out every once in a while. now the regulars at the club might not be all that good...

Never said you can't, just said that in can be excedingly hard depending on where you are and what you're looking for. All cities don't have the same economic structuring and venues, so in some cities it may be very hard to find a decent punk chick, in others it may be hard to find a girl that can recite Poe. Again I tend to cite extremes, which are easy to find here in Calgary, but finding a happy medium is much more difficult, there isn't much of an upper-middle class here, it's lower-middle or upper class, especially among the younger age groups.

Now I'm not looking for advice, it's covered, in this case the solution is the same one that will help out a lot of things that are wrong with this city and that's just get the hell out, cause there's a lot more high value women in every other city I've ever been in, even ones with a fraction the population.