Does he "suddenly" seem cute?

For you girls.

Take a guy that is not the hottest guy in the venue. Put that guy in this scenario.

He has MAJOR social proof and MAJOR pre-selection. For those that aren't familiar with the terminology . . . he has several girls around him, hanging with him, talking to him, laughing with him, in general having a blast with him. He has a couple of guys hanging with him and his group, and several other guys talking to him that know him.

We know he's more desirable at that point.

Does he suddenly seem HOT?

Yes and No.

In my opinion, No way!!

Just because he works those attraction switches, doesn't mean the guy is physically appealing and if he doesn't have that going for him, then he doesn't fit into my criteria. Not saying it's all about sex appeal, or physical features, or climbing social standings. It's the look, the gut feeling us women get like when we eat spicy food.LOL!! Personally, when I get chills and butterflies is when someone appeals to me, when someone catches me off guard, and at times...yes, my mouth will drop to the floor.

So, even if the guy is desirable because he is having a blast and being social and is a total 4 or something...no, I would not see him as "HOT'!! But most likely see him as one of the (what we like to call in the south) a "good ole' boy"!!!

I don't think it really changes how you see them physically. I think it just helps you notice them more and see them as a fun guy. I know plenty of guys who have social proof and still cant really get a girl. I think attraction is more complex than that. Its just a gut feeling you have when you are around someone. I mean if you take the same guy and put him in 2 scenarios...one where he is not very social and one that you suggested its obvious that he'll be noticed more and liked more. Sure. However, it takes more than social proof for me to be attracted to him.

Thank you both for your input.

LOL meg thats bull at least the first part was

Asking for input on what happens on a subconscious is going to lend itself to misleading answers. We, as 'sophisticated animals', do not like to think our actions are subject to things like pre-selection. I've seen a guy, seemingly overnight, be deemed the hottest guy in school because of pre-selection working at a close knit dorm school. But every single one of those girls wouldn't admit thats why they found him attractive... it was because he was an Italian Stalian, of course.

Dearest Hobbit,

The notions that every being is different is the key factor. Not everything is lead by attraction switches. I can vouch for that.In fact, I know some women that are oblivious to this. I'm not knocking PUA or it's course, but some women are just plain ignorant to a man's world. Now, seeming how I have been through alot of spectrums of dating, as like everyone else, everyone is entitled to their opinion and capable of advising to the best of their knowledge. True it can be misleading because most people don't give advice unless they have the knowledge of their own similar experiences and other observable examples. Thus, is why people openly discuss the matter whether it's from a man's or woman's perspective, that is indeed why we are here. It is up to the person seeking advice to pick and choose their own path or to take anyone's advice that is provided on the forum....dont you agree? And don't you give your advice as well?

OK, here was my purpose in this. I realize that most women don't know about their own attraction switches. I'm always striving to get further into the female mind, into their thoughts.

So, the purpose behind this, for me, was to find out what the female thought process is in this particular situation. I know, on my end, what's going on, and what's happening with the attraction switches, and what the results are from what's happening . . . but I also want to know what the females are actually thinking when all this is happening.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

Quote :

Dearest Hobbit,

The notions that every being is different is the key factor. Not everything is lead by attraction switches. I can vouch for that.In fact, I know some women that are oblivious to this. I'm not knocking PUA or it's course, but some women are just plain ignorant to a man's world. Now, seeming how I have been through alot of spectrums of dating, as like everyone else, everyone is entitled to their opinion and capable of advising to the best of their knowledge. True it can be misleading because most people don't give advice unless they have the knowledge of their own similar experiences and other observable examples. Thus, is why people openly discuss the matter whether it's from a man's or woman's perspective, that is indeed why we are here. It is up to the person seeking advice to pick and choose their own path or to take anyone's advice that is provided on the forum....dont you agree? And don't you give your advice as well?

I wasn't knocking your advice. Just saying there is a reason self-report types of studies are often wrong. Because people hate to think their being controlled. Do you think I like knowing the fact that the reason I have certain taste in things is because society has taught me to do so? No I don't. Read Bernay's "Propaganda" if you don't understand what I meant by that. This is the second time today I've suggested that book. But it really is golden for group psychology.

~Meg~ wrote:

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

Not if shes with them. But if lots of guys think she is hot, then it sometimes can affect me.

~Meg~ wrote:

I think attraction is more complex than that. Its just a gut feeling you have when you are around someone.

You're exactly right.

~Meg~ wrote:

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

This is an excellent question and view point. Hobbit makes a point on that. If other guys think a girl is hot, usually that does affect the rest of the guys. Personally, I'm a bit different in that area. There are girls that guys fawn over and I don't see why. Then again, there are girls that I think are cute, that most guys discard. I personally think a girl is cute or not on my own within seconds of looking at her. It's just one of those snap judgements. Then again, I CAN be persuaded that she is cuter than originally thought if I have a chance to get to know her. But just cause she has a bunch of guys around her? Nah, doesn't affect my personal thinking.

~Meg~ wrote:

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

If she is getting attention because she is acctually interesting then yes I will be more interested in her. It's not all about physical attraction for me I need some substance. If she's just being a slag then I wouldn't go near her with a 10 foot barge pole.

"I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?"

That depends on how many beers I've had.

I can see Meg and Para's points. I think in a general sense, both guys and girls rate others in 2 seperate ways which do have an effect on each other though. 1 is looks and the other is personality. I for one, dont care how hot a girl is if her personality sucks, on the other hand there is a limit to how much personality can compensate for unattractive physical features. So i think for the girls its probably similar...they may be more attracted to a guy who is socially proofed, that doesnt mean he becomes hotter.

~Meg~ wrote:

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

The answer to this is no because men and womens concepts of attractive social interactions are different. Women see a guy surrounded by women and get curious...a man sees a women surrounded and gets uninterested. We are more quick to judge looks first, we dont need social proof or anything like that to initiate our interest. We see a physically attractive girl, then after talking to her compare her personality to her looks. Sometimes its a go and other times we realize we got a dud.

Quote :

...a man sees a women surrounded and gets uninterested.

Don't rule out conquest. But that's a different story and has little to do with attraction and more to do with competition among men. Definitely doesn't mean she is suddenly "hot."

Karma wrote:

Quote :

...a man sees a women surrounded and gets uninterested.

Don't rule out conquest. But that's a different story and has little to do with attraction and more to do with competition among men. Definitely doesn't mean she is suddenly "hot."

Conquests are usually fun and have a potential goal for the end game, which I like. However, is it just among men that these conquests are for?

randy1random wrote:

~Meg~ wrote:

I was thinking that this concept can work in reverse...soo what do you guys think? Does SHE suddenly seem cute?

If she is getting attention because she is acctually interesting then yes I will be more interested in her. It's not all about physical attraction for me I need some substance. If she's just being a slag then I wouldn't go near her with a 10 foot barge pole.

Case in point about this one, for me, last night. I have a venue here that is now also open on Sundays. I went last night to check it out for my first time on Sunday. They've been doing this about a month now for Sundays.

Anyway, I was with an ex-g/f that I am now training. We were in the club and I saw this girl that has hit on me before and literally begged me to come over and fuck her, which I didn't do.

She is not hot to me, yet she has guys fawning all over her. Partially because she showers them with attention and flirts with them however she can. She HAS been around and I know this, which is one MAJOR reason I didn't touch her and WON'T touch her.

So, even though all these other guys are wanting her, I have no desire for her. They think she's at least cute, obviously, and more and more guys surround her. I say they can have her.

As I told the girl last night that was with me, those guys are most likely desperate because they don't get any action, normally, whereas a guy with options, like me, isn't desperate and WON'T be fawning all over her.

Just by watching dynamics like that you can usually tell how much action a guy actually gets . . . or not. Usually. It at least shows you how desperate or not he is.

Paramour wrote:

Karma wrote:

Quote :

...a man sees a women surrounded and gets uninterested.

Don't rule out conquest. But that's a different story and has little to do with attraction and more to do with competition among men. Definitely doesn't mean she is suddenly "hot."

Conquests are usually fun and have a potential goal for the end game, which I like. However, is it just among men that these conquests are for?

Sorry for the delay; I forgot to look back at this thread. The thing about this is that the woman is already obviously desirable, for whatever reason. A guy won't go after a girl in conquest if he isn't attracted to her, but then again she won't be surrounded by men if she isn't attractive. Nonetheless, there is an element of the male instinct to "climb to the top of the mountain," so to speak. If I know I am at least more "in" than another guy talking to my girl, it increases my urge to have her, but I can't say it makes her more desirable. More of a savage urge to take, I suppose. Does that make sense?

Tripp brings up excellent points, but I'm not certain they apply to my analysis. Once again, his skill level sets him apart from those of us who aren't yet zen masters of pickup. Wow, that sounds condescending as hell but I assure you it's not meant to be. I think Tripp demonstrates a progression like this:
AFC losing conquest => Apprentice PUA winning conquest => PUA apathetic because he can get plenty elsewhere.

Paramour. What do you mean by "end game"? I think I know what you mean
but I'm not a mind-reader. I don't really differentiate between what I
do with a woman when I meet her and later on.



So let's say, if you think about someone you feel really attracted to,
someone that really turns you on and makes you feel all of those
feelings, the way a man you find attractive makes you feel, you already
have in mind what it's like to be with him.



Whether it's someone you're with now, or someone you've been with
before or someone that you'd like to be with. I would imagine there's a
certain way he looks at you. And a certain way that he talks. Maybe
it's the rich tone of his voice. Or how he says what he says to you.
How he touches you during conversation. And I bet sometimes your mind
even starts to wonder a little bit. So you're not paying total
attention to what he's saying. Maybe you focus on a feature of his that
you like, and then your mind begins to drift and you begin thinking
other thoughts.



You actually have to start to feel a certain way and imagine how good
it would feel to be with this guy before you would ever actually do it.
Before you actually would be intimate with this guy, you have to think
about what it would be like to be with him, enjoy that thought, and
then you act on those desires. The "end game" if I'm interpreting what
you say correctly, happens LONG before the physical act. You have to
feel a certian way, and VERY POWERFULLY, before you'd ever want to be
intimate with a man. So my philosophy is, not to aim to get a woman in
bed, but to make her feel so good, that she will act on her own desires
however she sees fit in the moment.

LOL . . . I like your progressive model Karma.

L.A. Tripp wrote:

LOL . . . I like your progressive model Karma.

I'll like it better as I move to the right. I'm somewhere between chasing after the obvious target and being able to get a target. Ha!

LMAO Karma. It's like the twilight zone . . . it starts in your mind . . .

Maximus wrote:

Paramour. What do you mean by "end game"? I think I know what you mean
but I'm not a mind-reader. I don't really differentiate between what I
do with a woman when I meet her and later on.



So let's say, if you think about someone you feel really attracted to,
someone that really turns you on and makes you feel all of those
feelings, the way a man you find attractive makes you feel, you already
have in mind what it's like to be with him.



Whether it's someone you're with now, or someone you've been with
before or someone that you'd like to be with. I would imagine there's a
certain way he looks at you. And a certain way that he talks. Maybe
it's the rich tone of his voice. Or how he says what he says to you.
How he touches you during conversation. And I bet sometimes your mind
even starts to wonder a little bit. So you're not paying total
attention to what he's saying. Maybe you focus on a feature of his that
you like, and then your mind begins to drift and you begin thinking
other thoughts.



You actually have to start to feel a certain way and imagine how good
it would feel to be with this guy before you would ever actually do it.
Before you actually would be intimate with this guy, you have to think
about what it would be like to be with him, enjoy that thought, and
then you act on those desires. The "end game" if I'm interpreting what
you say correctly, happens LONG before the physical act. You have to
feel a certian way, and VERY POWERFULLY, before you'd ever want to be
intimate with a man. So my philosophy is, not to aim to get a woman in
bed, but to make her feel so good, that she will act on her own desires
however she sees fit in the moment.

End game to ME is when you have attracted, built your comfort, and moving on to better things. Now, as a woman......from a personal expereince, it really differs with the guy as to how I am attracted. Obviously, I can be attracted to someone I haven't even met just yet, just by putting those "fairy tale" desires in my own head. That is what gets women in trouble with their fantasy romance and make us act on those "emotions". Admittedly, I have done such a thing, but if I didn't then I wouldn't be able to tell you how awesome it was and then how it plumitted. Naturally, being a realist, I do have ideals. My ideal is to find the perfect man for me, but for christ sakes, this is reality!! For a man to make me feel THAT good to where I would act on my own desires, of any desire I see fit, that would take alot of time invested into myself and with him.

Sometimes, it would be easier just to have that little red button to press when you see fit to fulfill a desire or even a hollow space where you are missing a piece of the puzzle that you THINK makes you feel as though you are whole, but we all do respect some people reach to far beyond those bright stars, when they should just take a long good look in the mirror!

But...as they say, different strokes for different folks!!

What really sets the attraction is enabling the enabler to enable!

Or is that wrong? Or do you agree?

Paramour wrote:

What really sets the attraction is enabling the enabler to enable!

Say that five times fast . . .