Counter AMOG Theory(s)

When i first got into PU one of my ultimate goals was to lift myself up status wise within my social circles. To become the alpha leader of these groups, i would have to deflect a barrage of AMOG'in directed at me.

I got plenty of practise in that respect, seeing as how many of my close friends and family members are very much so alpha types. Not only that i had to overcome years of socially established norms.

A good friend of mine who is also in PU made a profound statement that has stuck with me;

"We train people how to treat us."

Simple but extremely profound. I had never thought about it like that. People test us on a daily basis and based on our reactions to them decide how to treat us. Based on this understanding, its possible to make quick desicions to control how people treat us in the future.

Originally i thought the process of flipping my status around and "re-training" my friends and family would take forever if it was even possible...to my surprise i started seeing results almost immediatlly. Some of the people who had AMOG'ed me the most didnt change at first, they actually amp'd up the AMOG'in for a short period. However through continuelly countering thier AMOG'in, i was able to retrain them and see drastic results in the way i was being treated.

How'd i do it?

Well this is where we get a bit more into my theory on how to on the fly, create and effectivelly use Counter's to typical AMOG'ing.

First you need to know a bit about the person AMOG'in you...the more you know them the easier this is. However if you never meet them before, you can still read a bit about them from body language, tonality, EC, thier friends, how they say things.

Why is this important? Because the way i counter AMOG is to custom tailor the counter to the person. I look for weakness's, quirks, contridicorty statements/actions, etc. Then i turn this around on them.

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For instance:
I go out on my birthday with some friends, a long time friend who shall be called CZ, is a huge AMOG. My friends have for a long time, felt i resemble Justin Timberlake...which i used to let bother me but now i take it as a compliment.

Due to my fedora and jacket, overall look, my buddy CZ has decided to use that to AMOG me throughout the night...heres how some of them went...

CZ: "Hey dude, you know you inda look like that fag, Justin Timberlake."
ME: "Aw, CZ, if your gonna hit on me stop playing games and just tell me you like me."
(said with a smile, EC, then start laffing and talk about something else.)

Later, we enter another venue and a Moroon 5 song is playing...

CZ: "Hey you could be this fag too." (makes a physical refference to the music comming from roof speakers)
ME: "What band is that?"
CZ: "Its Moroon 5."
ME: "Wow, and im suppossed to be the gay one, yet you know who they are?"
(All said with a smile and EC, then a hearty laff)
*The people in our group each time laff at CZ, this time his girlfriend is cracking up laffing at him*

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So what did i do in my examples? Why did they work and what did i base them off of?

Since i know this guy, i know when he typically tries to put down another guy he reffrences homosexuality (gay, fag, queer, etc). Most people who constantly call others things of this nature are deep down inside unsure of thier own sexuality. So i turned this weakness against him and the discomfort he displayed caused him to completely lose the power, and my comfort with it all along with not getting upset gave me all the power.

So what do you do when you cant make such a deep reading?

Well you can counter AMOG simply by turning around something they say (look at my FR in Tripp's vault, Wedding rehersal..good example of counter AMOG in this mammer).

You can pre-emptively AMOG/counter simply by seating arrangement. Make sure to be as central as possible to everyone and make sure the person who you want to counter is in the worst possible location for social interaction.

What about physical AMOG?

This is a bit more complex, but the idea here is akin to amp'ing up kino. Start off by verbally countering ("hey bro, im not intrested thanks, no need to get touchy-feely"). Then start with very small counter/kino, say a tap or light punch...combine it with a AMOG like statemnt (punch arm "HEY BUDDY!")...later in the night grab his shoulders and squeeze. Always combine some kinda friendly statement with the physcial AMOG/counter, assumeing his wasnt threatening.

This is about the best advice i can think of as far as how to counter AMOG'in...to sum it up...Get used to reading people, use thier weakness's against them in your counter comments, if they amp it up, so do you, keep it all friendly.

Hope this helps

Ka, that theory is gold my man, and thank you for sharing it with us. This is the essential item I think deserves to be stuck on the forum.

I'm not a big fan of the guy. But for those of you wanting to know more about AMOG theory, look into Tyler Durden
s work. He dedicated a whole trip in Europe to AMOG theory. If you have read The Game you would know what I'm talking about. If not I highly suggest looking into this.

lol Yeah, i havent experienced AMOG'in yet but when i do ill be ready

AMOGing is something you pretty much have to learn in order to become an mPUA.

Think about this; you are in a set. Doing great, then some massive good-looking college football quaterback comes over. Suddenly takes over the set, and makes you look like a tool by displaying his physical superiority. Which in the mind of a female relates to her security factor in male selection.

Now that sucks major. You just go blow out of a set by a jock cause he AMOGed you. Thus, the idea of needing to know AMOG theory. You have to be able to steal their frame in order to beat the; plain and simple.

Juice wrote:

lol Yeah, i havent experienced AMOG'in yet but when i do ill be ready

You get AMOG'd on a daily basis and just arent identifying it as such. A slap on the back, a small seemingly insignificant comment, or a direct insult/joke or dismissal of your thought and ideas.

Think of AMOG'in as this...someone testing your social pressence and trying to eventually if not immediatly overtake your frame.

People test you with almost everything they say, do, or respond. Your reactions determine if they are effective or ineffective in debunking your frame and social status.

Hey, can I get some help on a few lines??

I'm still looking into Counter-Amogging,

but.

Here are some lines I get,*since I'm still with a few immature high school freshmen*
Also, I'm Korean.

"Shut up man, you have a small asian penis."

"Your mom sounds like this, (High Squeak)"

"*Squints Eyes*"

"Ughh!! You look so asian!"

"Screw you, you're asian."


..I know girls don't have any sense of racism, but the comments make me either physically attack the kid or just STFU and look bad..

Grape wrote:

Hey, can I get some help on a few lines??

I'm still looking into Counter-Amogging,

but.

Here are some lines I get,*since I'm still with a few immature high school freshmen*
Also, I'm Korean.

"Shut up man, you have a small asian penis."

"Your mom sounds like this, (High Squeak)"

"*Squints Eyes*"

"Ughh!! You look so asian!"

"Screw you, you're asian."


..I know girls don't have any sense of racism, but the comments make me either physically attack the kid or just STFU and look bad..

Big rule to counter AMOG'in is not to let it bother you....also outside of school age people this is looked down on, but i found it highly effective to make fun of myself if someone else did.

"Shut up man, you have a small asian penis."

YOU : "Your right man, its so small i use tweezers to beat it, isnt that crazy...i guess its the price i pay for A's in math."

Whats he gonna say to that....

The biggest part of counter AMOG'in is not rewarding the AMOG'er with a upset reaction, if it doesnt bother you they will stop...further more if they look like an ass for doing it instead of the funny alpha guy, you look better and they come accross as a jerk.

I would go with Cocky and Funny!< I love that and i don't know how many times I say that.

"You have small asian penis"

"I know I do because i am asian whats your excuse for having a small penis"

^Bam i am pretty sure he will be choked and if he comes back with something along with the lines of him not having one.

"You know the first stage is always denial. Deny Deny Deny but you will never fool me because I am Asian!"

^Out smart him is all you got to do.



*Squinty Eyes*

"They are made like that because your mama is so fat I need to see her in widescreen"

^I just came up with that but be brutal and C/F



"Your mom sounds like this, (High Squeaky Voice)"

"Your mom would too but she is to busy choking on my small asain penis!"

^Let him know it doesn't bother you that your asian.


Those are examples of what you can say. Try them out and come back and tell me how it went.

Grape wrote:

"Ughh!! You look so asian!"

"Yep, I can't help it that I'm sexy." Give a confident smile.

The key, as has been said already, is to ALWAYS not be effected by the AMOG.

Ahh, thanks a ton guys. I'll be sure to use these and I'm sure these'll DHV better for me.

Okay so here's a field report from a concert I played at last night.

My bass player, a complete faggot I should add in, is a complete faggot.
He stalks me and analyzes everything I do when I game girls, but of course he doesn't know I'm a PUA, and he copies them.
Example, I start negging a girl about her hair and make up and he adds in GROSS! Which was the strongest part of the neg.
I had done this neg on several other girls and he had been watching my methods.

He's been doing this to so many other girls and in such a strong and intense frame that I had less prizability than he did since he just threw in the negs really really hard.

Although I know what I'm supposed to do after negging, he doesn't.
But I can't really move on when he comes in and fucks with my game and girl start chasing after him.

For him, damned AFC, after the negging, the girls obviously start shit testing him and he gives in real easily.
They ask, "Are you desperate for me?"
He goes, "Maybe. "
They reply: "I was really turned on by you."
He goes, "So was I."

and for some fucking reason they fall in love with the kid.
Probably since they have validation from a "prize".

But this kid had no fucking idea what he was doing until he started hanging out with me.
And now, he's ALWAYS stealing my targets, still trying to throw in the immature racist jokes.

I really need help with Counter-Amogging. Bad.
Any references to eBooks or audio courses on this would be of GREAT value.

Thanks guys.

Grape wrote:

Okay so here's a field report from a concert I played at last night.

My bass player, a complete faggot I should add in, is a complete faggot.
He stalks me and analyzes everything I do when I game girls, but of course he doesn't know I'm a PUA, and he copies them.
Example, I start negging a girl about her hair and make up and he adds in GROSS! Which was the strongest part of the neg.
I had done this neg on several other girls and he had been watching my methods.

He's been doing this to so many other girls and in such a strong and intense frame that I had less prizability than he did since he just threw in the negs really really hard.

Although I know what I'm supposed to do after negging, he doesn't.
But I can't really move on when he comes in and fucks with my game and girl start chasing after him.

For him, damned AFC, after the negging, the girls obviously start shit testing him and he gives in real easily.
They ask, "Are you desperate for me?"
He goes, "Maybe. "
They reply: "I was really turned on by you."
He goes, "So was I."

and for some fucking reason they fall in love with the kid.
Probably since they have validation from a "prize".

But this kid had no fucking idea what he was doing until he started hanging out with me.
And now, he's ALWAYS stealing my targets, still trying to throw in the immature racist jokes.

I really need help with Counter-Amogging. Bad.
Any references to eBooks or audio courses on this would be of GREAT value.

Thanks guys.

As far as breaking the code, it's funny cause that's what my next newsletter is on. Now, on the AMOG tactics . . .
does he happen to wear jewelry? If so, the next time he AMOGs you, point at his jewelry and tell him he needs to go get it cleaned, NOW. Throw out remarks like that that tell him he's not welcome there at that moment. Or, "didn't your mom call and tell you you need to blah blah blah?" And again, with the racist stuff, use what we listed for you before.

P.S. Have you taken him aside and talked to him about this stuff? Telling him to NOT do this?

Okay, he's just annoying.
Everyone knows he is.

But he can also get under your skin about stuff.
I talk to him every couple of months about how annoying he is to everyone and how he has to stop.

He calls me fag and goes about whining pretending not to care.
But then again, he doesn't shut up about it.

Also, we've been close friends for a bit so he and I both have embarrassing secrets about each other.

But now, he has a big mouth and tells everyone. I personally don't want to look like a dick.
Everyone knows he's not cool and is seeking attention doing what he's doing.

But when I'm gaming a chick, She's in a good vibe!

Sometimes he'd come up to me and a girl and just tell her, "Hey, he's 'gaming' you. hahaha"

and that just makes things weird.

I'm sure I'd be really good at Counter-Amogging once I get the hang of it.
I've just never been Alpha often.
It does happen, just not often.

It apears to me there is a bigger issue here then AMOG/counter....you seem to have people actively following you to mess with you.

This leads back to a theory i touched on in a past post.

How can you be the alpha in another group of people if your not the alpha in your own social circles?

The answer is you cannot. You need to work purely on "re-training" these people how to treat and interact with you. So far you have showed them unintentionally im sure, that it is ok and fun to pick on you.

You need to put a stop to that, unless you like it, which again im sure you dont.

Why are you hanging out with someone, much less calling them a friend, when they treat you this way. If one of my "friends" walked upto me while i was talking to someone else and acted this way id either tell them to go @*#$ themselves for good (and thus not socialize with them) or id literally hit them. They know better.

You wana know what a close friend does when your with a girl...they either leave you alone, or they proof you and wing for you....these arent PUA concepts.

You need to immediatly start countering these people;

-Dont act bothered (people dont get under your skin unless you let them)
-Flip it around on them, have something funny to say back
-Punish them for bad behavior with a retort, negative body language, a glare, and by ignoring them when they speak (like when they try and tell a story just walk away)
-Reward them for positive behavior, try to minimize doing this, selectively reward them.

If they dont change thier bahavior (do expect some of it to initially get worse before it gets better, its a power struggle after all), then dont hang around them. Why would you wana spend time around people who put you down, friends dont do that.

Well he's our bass player. Haha, I really don't think he'd have ANY friends in my circle of 20-30 had he not played bass.
Also, he's the best around our area so kicking him out isn't realla an option. Also, he was voted class clown last year so no one really takes him seriously.
I already know not to let him get under my skin, but I guess he just pissed me off to a certain level where I couldn't take it anymore.
High school drama ehh?

Grape wrote:

Well he's our bass player. Haha, I really don't think he'd have ANY friends in my circle of 20-30 had he not played bass.
Also, he's the best around our area so kicking him out isn't realla an option. Also, he was voted class clown last year so no one really takes him seriously.
I already know not to let him get under my skin, but I guess he just pissed me off to a certain level where I couldn't take it anymore.
High school drama ehh?

Those are excuses for letting yourself be a victim to this guy. I have a close friend whos in a band, and they had a drummer they hated...outside of gigs and practise they avoided him...eventually they ditched him.

You can try countering him and see if it gets better or straight up tell him to shape up or youre not gonna have anything to do with him...either way, if he doesnt treat you better id cut him off as much as possible. You dont need a friend like that, period.

With the knowledge and tools we as PUAs have to our discretion, we also realize we have the power to surround ourselves with better people, because we deserve good people around us. You need to re-invent your concept of what constitutes friendship, and apply that new guideline to the people around you, do they fit it?

I have standards for friends.
I avoid the people that I don't like and hang out with the ones I feel do meet up with my standards.

It's just we're forced to meet since we're in a band together.

In other words . . . ISOLATE the girls ASAP so that he can't get around them.

L.A. Tripp wrote:

In other words . . . ISOLATE the girls ASAP so that he can't get around them.

I tried.
I was about to take her outside after building that rapport.
But he was right then and there.

Thanks for the advice!
Will try to do it ASAP.

You need a new friend. Honestly I would confront him and if he did it again. I would just physically make him not to want to do it again. You asain show him some kung fu!

Whoopie wrote:

You need a new friend. Honestly I would confront him and if he did it again. I would just physically make him not to want to do it again. You asain show him some kung fu!

Haha, I've kicked his ass so many times.
He's just.. stupid.
He's not cool, he's one of the people no one really likes once you get to know them.

But the girls I'm gaming don't know how gay he is.
So yeah, I'm going to take Tripp's advice, thanks a ton guys.

Hey bro, I am Asian, I have gotten that all my life, everything you have gone through. Even the Amog part, I posted help about the Amog part just recently, except this time lames I know who dare to AMOG me about my race (it will not happen) know they will get "chin checked", (ask me if you do not know what that means). Why? because it is in my frame. You see part of building my frame was to take a boxing course, work out, among other things.

Also, I heard Style say once, do things that full fill you, for example, the guy wrote for the New York Times, very prestige in his realm for writers as game. I bet other writers say bravo to that, but he admited it did not full fill his life, he did not feel happy, so he probably went back to freelancing or writting about what he loves. The point here is, when I had my punk band and my lame drummer did the same thing, ( this was shortly after my senior year too) I fired him. If anybody in my band disagreed, I fired them as well. I went renegade fearless, because I knew, I can have another band. You always have a choice to bounce from other dudes. Right now, Some dudes are trying to lay rules on me about renting a house, and turn it into a frat, but they want to give me the smallest room without my say. I have over 2 grand of Dj and studio equipment, where do you want me to put it? They wanted it in the living room so they can mess with it, and they all smoke, yo who wants mates like that. so what I do? I rented my own crib a loft in fact, in the ritz part of town, now I get laid everyday and I can DJ...naked if I freaking wanted too!

Hey I was in highschool too, I know the feeling. What you need here is expand your social circle, find people who have personalities that boost yours, start recruiting for a new band or how it is called in the industry a side project. Cop yourself a hot 9 or 10, and she gotta be a bad bitch, the baddest. So that everyone can recognize game. In fact start surrounding yourself with bad broads, get social proofed homeboy, become untouchable, begin developing as a man, your own, not based on how others see you. So if your weak ass guitar player or whatever drops a lame Asian joke, when you come out c/f it will show. Man, not to brag but right now, I got a hot 9, she is a bad broad man, like literally, ballin black dudes just gawk at her bad ass booty, look at her, than look at me, as she flares them off as lames while holding my arm. She always yell in public how she hates me and say " Damn ASIAN!" , while she holds me hard.
Dude that is hate from these other lames, and it is the best compliment a hater can give is just stare me down while a HB holds on to me for dear life. What i am saying is, it is all possible, like the matrix, you will bend the spoon, but its not the spoon that bends....ITS YOU HOMEBOY!

z-mac wrote:

Hey I was in highschool too, I know the feeling. What you need here is expand your social circle, find people who have personalities that boost yours, start recruiting for a new band or how it is called in the industry a side project. Cop yourself a hot 9 or 10, and she gotta be a bad bitch, the baddest. So that everyone can recognize game. In fact start surrounding yourself with bad broads, get social proofed homeboy, become untouchable, begin developing as a man, your own, not based on how others see you. So if your weak ass guitar player or whatever drops a lame Asian joke, when you come out c/f it will show. Man, not to brag but right now, I got a hot 9, she is a bad broad man, like literally, ballin black dudes just gawk at her bad ass booty, look at her, than look at me, as she flares them off as lames while holding my arm. She always yell in public how she hates me and say " Damn ASIAN!" , while she holds me hard.
Dude that is hate from these other lames, and it is the best compliment a hater can give is just stare me down while a HB holds on to me for dear life. What i am saying is, it is all possible, like the matrix, you will bend the spoon, but its not the spoon that bends....ITS YOU HOMEBOY!

You are soo right.
@*#$ this.
I have a completely new aspect on life and relationships.
Why not start over?
I'll hang out with the ones that are cool and better and seriously start ditching the ones I hate.
I'll make plans with the HB's where the fags aren't around.
Sure it'll be pretty hard, but it'll be better.