Need help--HB with bf (continued story)

As many of you know, I've been dating this HB that supposedly has either a bf or a "guy she has feelings for" who just moved to Texas (the guy).



Up until last week, she's been real clingy-- does not hide the fact that she wants me every night, calls me "lover" etc... Maybe it was my imagination, but things seemed to fizz towards the end-- (she'd say she would come over at 8, but then not even text me until 8:45 to tell me "just finishing up, still coming" and then eventually arrive at 9:30.

This girl also blew me off for the 4th of July-- we had plans to watch fireworks, but she said she couldn't meet up bc she had so much to drink (she's a lightweight), didn't feel well, and was having her friends drive her home. Meanwhile, she texts me "I want you tonight."

I don't respond... but I go to the club later, and guess who I see there? We talked there.. She left w/out saying anything, later texting me "so sorry, my friends wanted to leave... blah blah. But I blew it off... We went out the following night, had dinner and sex.

Later (last week) She told me she was going to Ca to see her bro for the weekend.. I'll bet you anything she really went to TX to see that guy. She arrived back last Tuesday. I waited until Thursday to text her and said:

"What's up little grasshoppa?"

HB doesn't respond until this morning (Sat), and says:

"Hey there iron monkey. How are things? Long time no see. I miss ya"

OK guys.... Where to go from here?

Let me first explain that I have come to terms with being "the other man." This girl is hot, loves to fvck, really affectionate, sweet, awesome personality, etc.. I'm just not sure she's (exclusive) LTR material.. It bothers me that she supposedly has a bf (or someone she's interested in) in TX, and I couldn't rip her from him... but she still fvcks me

I equate this relationship to a vacation to Wally World- go ahead, have fun. Ride the roller coaster-- over and over if you want. By all means, have your picture taken with Marty Moose and buy a t-shirt-- have a blast, just keep in mind that it won't last forever, and at some point you'll have to come home.

That is how I see it with her.. I love her coming over and staying with me. She's fun 100% of the time.. I want to keep it going.. Where to go from here (we'll start by what and when to respond to her text).

Thanks, guys

I would respond by trying to get her ass over to my place if possible. She says she missed you. That could be a load of shit, but I think that she genuinely meant it. Like you said it's kind of complicated being the "other guy" although, as you know it does have some amazing benefits too! I would say something like, "When is my Grasshopper taking the great quest to come over and see Iron Monkey?"

She could have deep feelings for her b/f, but maybe he doesn't satisfy her sexually. And obviously he's not geographically close to her. Who knows? Maybe she's the type that likes MLTR's and likes to keep them all at somewhat of a distance.

Enjoy the ride. As J said, there are some amazing benefits that can come from this type of relationship.

We've talked before about being on the back burner. I asked her point blank if she would be pissed if I went on a date with another girl. She said "yeah." Then I said:

"Are we together?"
She said "I don't know, are we?"
ME: No. We're not together..

We both expressed our disinterest in being on anyone's back burner.

So what about texting her something like this:

"Brrrrrrrrrrrrr sure is a little chilly on that back burner, no?"

THis is kind of ambiguous because it could mean I've put HER on the back burner, or that I'm on the her back burner, or that both of us are on each other's back burner.

What do you guys think about this?

And, she waited a couple days to text me back (unusual.. unless she didn't get my earlier text, which I find rare). Should I wait to text her back?

I don't want to be too direct about her coming over here because I have another HB staying with me tonight...

I should add---- She left a dvd over at my place.. Any play I can make on this? (as in, come get your dvd?) Also, she has a shirt of mine... Any thing I can do with this?

I would go with what J said, over what you are thinking Diesel. Every time I've felt slighted by a girl and said something that I figure is ambiguous and may make her fight for my interest, she just ended up feeling like I was picking a fight (if you think about it, that's pretty much what you're doing) and things ended up worse, not better.

Ever watched a movie, or tv show, or read a book even, where a married guy has a mistress and she gets upset that he won't leave his wife, even though he's obviously interested in the mistress, he just still has feelings for his wife as well and he won't leave her no matter what the mistress says? Sometimes the mistress will try and make the husband jealous and go off with another guy and that just pisses him off and he kills one or both of them; don't worry, I doubt she has the stomach for this, just keep it on the dl so that she doesn't get pissed off like that, it isn't a way to get her more interested, she'll just leave you, but I see no reason why you can't play the same game she is, just keep it quiet like she does. I'm sure you know what happens when the mistress pushes too hard to get the guy to leave his wife though, generally he ends up bailing and if she threatens to tell, then he wacks her; again, she's not gonna kill you, but if you push on this, she's just gonna lose interest, cause she isn't getting what she wanted, she's now dealing with all sorts of crap she hadn't bargained for and she'll find what she wants somewhere else instead.

I'd advise you to just keep cool, don't be reactive, just be who you are, let her know what you want (don't bother with the exclusive relationship talks, just what you told us, that you wanna have fun and be with her). Your attitude is gonna let her know whether you've accepted the fact that you're the "other man" or not. If you can't accept it, then move on, if you can, then take what you've got and accept that and deal with it in the manner that it calls for.

Long Distance relationship suck to start off with. Thats one thing she might want to get out of.

Next it could just be her b/f is not treating her right. Take her for granted. Not treating her the way he treated her when they first started going out. The flame is starting to flicker out but she is still going out with him to give him a chance.

Don't look at it you ripping her away from him. He is just packaging her and handing her to you with dumb founded smile on his face.

If she is not LTR material than turn her into one of your MLTR.

Sounds like she views herself as having the power over you. If she is seeing two men, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to go on a date. If it makes her mad, tough. Why should just get the emotional leftovers from another guy and she force you to be exclusive when she is not.

Also, like people said before. Don't send a text like that. Ideally you want to get where you don't argue over petty things with girls (unless you enjoy drama). Trying to push her buttons is often an attempt for reaction. You want to stay the calm, cool, collective alpha male who doesn't start stupid fights. That is, unless you like drama (like some do). I used to always try to send the ambiguous texts to girls and stuff but as my inner game has grown, that need has ended.

P.S. She seems to be a girl that may get tired of a guy if she sees him too often. Perhaps the reason she is no longer clingy is because your easily attainable but the guy in TX isn't. This is just a cold read, but if you think thats the case distance yourself from her and make her chase you again.

Update on HB...

She texted me:
HB: Hey there iron monkey, long time no see. I miss ya.
ME:you in town?
HB Yes sir
ME Let's get together
HB OK when?
ME Tonight
(some time later) ME: Not sure about tonight (wanted to watch UFC with some friends), but we'll get together soon
HB Why not tonight?
ME: Hmmmmm what time?
HB. You tell me
ME: I'm watching UFC. You're welcome to to join me
HB Where are you?
ME: Home.. It's live on TV.

HB doesn't respond.. The last text was at 8:15pm. She has to get up for work at 5am... In the meantime, I'm so beat from the wine walk, drinking, etc, that I pass out and end up missing the UFC fight myself.


At 9am this morning, HB texts me:
HB: So sorry about last night. I fell asleep and woke up at midnight. My fault. Oopsie I'll make it up to you.


Ok guys.... interpret, advice, tell me what to say next!

I appreciate all the help...

"No worries, I was pretty beat and ended up passing out on the couch myself. We'll get together sometime soon"

Make her wait a couple days, then meet up with her and make her work to earn your affection. Don't be cold with her, just don't be dishing out the kino and especially the sex and kissing, make her earn it.

Rye Lee wrote:

"No worries, I was pretty beat and ended up passing out on the couch myself. We'll get together sometime soon"

Make her wait a couple days, then meet up with her and make her work to earn your affection. Don't be cold with her, just don't be dishing out the kino and especially the sex and kissing, make her earn it.

I definitely agree on the advice, but on the wordage, I would push the line further. Something like
"I became preoccupied anyway. Maybe you can catch me in a couple of days."

That is good shit, guys...

I get the best stuff from Rye, Tripp, and J.. Thanks, guys.


Now, here's something for Tripp and Rye (J, if you wanna throw in)...

RL had this analogy of a man with a mistress. He likes the mistress, but won't leave his wife for her. If the mistress pushes for him too much, he'll ditch the mistress. I'm 100% with you guys here.

Now, here is where Tripp and RL might have a difference of opinion----
If the man's mistress starts dating other men, and makes it known to the man (or rather, is really bad about hiding it), he might get irritated and drop the mistress (even though it is a double standard- he's married, she should be able to "date" other men.."

RL led me to believe if I let her believe (subtly or otherwise) that I was seeing other women, that it would not attract her more, but rather, make her want to leave me to find another man...

So, Tripp, RL, do I pretend (hide it from her) that I'm seeing other women? Or, will it attract her more if she thinks I might possibly be seeing other women?

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Cock Diesel wrote:

That is good shit, guys...

I get the best stuff from Rye, Tripp, and J.. Thanks, guys.


Now, here's something for Tripp and Rye (J, if you wanna throw in)...

RL had this analogy of a man with a mistress. He likes the mistress, but won't leave his wife for her. If the mistress pushes for him too much, he'll ditch the mistress. I'm 100% with you guys here.

Now, here is where Tripp and RL might have a difference of opinion----
If the man's mistress starts dating other men, and makes it known to the man (or rather, is really bad about hiding it), he might get irritated and drop the mistress (even though it is a double standard- he's married, she should be able to "date" other men.."

RL led me to believe if I let her believe (subtly or otherwise) that I was seeing other women, that it would not attract her more, but rather, make her want to leave me to find another man...

So, Tripp, RL, do I pretend (hide it from her) that I'm seeing other women? Or, will it attract her more if she thinks I might possibly be seeing other women?

Depends on her personality really. Some girls would be so utterly turned off that they just wouldn't bother to break up with you if they found out, they just wouldn't ever talk to you again. Other girls though would be very attracted because of it. I think you know enough about her that you should be able to figure out which she is, cause just from listening to how you speak of her, I have an IDEA, but I can't possibly guarantee, hell I probably couldn't guarantee unless I were the one in a relationship with her and knew the stuff you knew.

Rye Lee wrote:

Cock Diesel wrote:

That is good shit, guys...

I get the best stuff from Rye, Tripp, and J.. Thanks, guys.


Now, here's something for Tripp and Rye (J, if you wanna throw in)...

RL had this analogy of a man with a mistress. He likes the mistress, but won't leave his wife for her. If the mistress pushes for him too much, he'll ditch the mistress. I'm 100% with you guys here.

Now, here is where Tripp and RL might have a difference of opinion----
If the man's mistress starts dating other men, and makes it known to the man (or rather, is really bad about hiding it), he might get irritated and drop the mistress (even though it is a double standard- he's married, she should be able to "date" other men.."

RL led me to believe if I let her believe (subtly or otherwise) that I was seeing other women, that it would not attract her more, but rather, make her want to leave me to find another man...

So, Tripp, RL, do I pretend (hide it from her) that I'm seeing other women? Or, will it attract her more if she thinks I might possibly be seeing other women?

Depends on her personality really. Some girls would be so utterly turned off that they just wouldn't bother to break up with you if they found out, they just wouldn't ever talk to you again. Other girls though would be very attracted because of it. I think you know enough about her that you should be able to figure out which she is, cause just from listening to how you speak of her, I have an IDEA, but I can't possibly guarantee, hell I probably couldn't guarantee unless I were the one in a relationship with her and knew the stuff you knew.

What's your idea?

Whoopie wrote:

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Dude I have no idea what you just said..

Cock Diesel wrote:

That is good shit, guys...

I get the best stuff from Rye, Tripp, and J.. Thanks, guys.


Now, here's something for Tripp and Rye (J, if you wanna throw in)...

RL had this analogy of a man with a mistress. He likes the mistress, but won't leave his wife for her. If the mistress pushes for him too much, he'll ditch the mistress. I'm 100% with you guys here.

Now, here is where Tripp and RL might have a difference of opinion----
If the man's mistress starts dating other men, and makes it known to the man (or rather, is really bad about hiding it), he might get irritated and drop the mistress (even though it is a double standard- he's married, she should be able to "date" other men.."

RL led me to believe if I let her believe (subtly or otherwise) that I was seeing other women, that it would not attract her more, but rather, make her want to leave me to find another man...

So, Tripp, RL, do I pretend (hide it from her) that I'm seeing other women? Or, will it attract her more if she thinks I might possibly be seeing other women?

OK, if it were me, I wouldn't make any effort to hide it from her personally. I would look at it as sort of a showdown. If it pissed her off to where she wanted to leave me at that point, I'd put her double standard in her own face. If she persisted and wanted to leave, I'd flush her. A girl like that is replaceable.

If it's already an open relationship of sorts, then she shouldn't be taking that attitude. If the two are actually exclusive with each other, obviously it wouldn't fly to be acting like it's open. Of course nobody's perfect and shit happens, but ideally, that's how it should play out.

However, in my case, considering I do have two relationships going on, I've told them both they could fuck other men, I just want to know about it before hand, for various reasons.

Cock Diesel wrote:

Whoopie wrote:

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Dude I have no idea what you just said..

It saves face for you. The statement tells her "I was hoping you would respond so I could do what you do and flake on you. Because I don't need you, and you're gonna know that."

Just as he explained, there are a lot more things you can do in your life than just be with her.

L.A. Tripp wrote:

Cock Diesel wrote:

Whoopie wrote:

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Dude I have no idea what you just said..

It saves face for you. The statement tells her "I was hoping you would respond so I could do what you do and flake on you. Because I don't need you, and you're gonna know that."

Just as he explained, there are a lot more things you can do in your life than just be with her.

Meh.... That's pretty non-PUA stuff there.. What does it accomplish? Sure, I get my little jab in, but it ruins it for the future..

When I did sales (selling myself as a personal trainer), I knew how to paint people into a corner so that their only option was to hire me.. And when they would "cheat" or pull some sht out of the blue that makes no sense, I COULD call them on their bullsht, and get that little bit of satisfaction.. but for what? It's juvenile... and bad business.. although tempting..

Instead, I just let it go.. leave 'em sweet is what they say in sales, and sales is a hell of a lot like PUA.

This applies, also, to when you get blown off, dumped, etc by a girl. It is SOOO tempting to fire something back at them to make them feel like sht.. but for what? Leave 'em sweet, guys... Leave 'em sweet.

Besides... If you throw in that little jab, it shows you care too much...

I tell myself over and over:
"There is NOTHING this girl can do or say that will piss me off, ruin my day, get my feathers ruffled. I'm not letting this HB have that power over me"

It's easier said than done.. But bite the bullet and refrain from doing/texting/saying anything that lets her know you care. Don't give HER that satisfaction of knowing she affected you.

My own preference would be to go about it like Tripp said, if she wants to have double standards and thinks she deserves different than me, then fine, toss her. I REALLY hate double standards though.

Now if you're really interested in keeping her around, but this isn't a serious relationship, then from what you've said in the past, I wouldn't let her know you're seeing other girls, cause most likely she will resort to double standards and be pissed off. All depends on how you view the relationship and your own moral code though; some people have no problem lying and keeping stuff secret and some people find it impossible.

Thanks, Rye..

I PM'd you about "Josephine." "Josephine" is a name I made up that means "any other girl besides the HB w/ BF"

She might ask where I was or what I did and I would say "oh, I was just having lunch with Josephine.. Or, I'd say "Josephine called me and said the funniest thing.. listen to this..." I don't know if she ever got it or not, because after saying such a thing, I would say "ever know anyone named 'Josephine'? Me neither" Anyway, I did this to create the sense that there were other women in my life.. But instead, I think I will just date other girls and tell her I was out with friends.

When she asks what I did for the weekend, would saying:
"I went on the wine walk then out for sushi" lead her to believe I dated another girl (I mean, who goes on a wine walk by themselves?)

Cock Diesel wrote:

L.A. Tripp wrote:

Cock Diesel wrote:

Whoopie wrote:

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Dude I have no idea what you just said..

It saves face for you. The statement tells her "I was hoping you would respond so I could do what you do and flake on you. Because I don't need you, and you're gonna know that."

Just as he explained, there are a lot more things you can do in your life than just be with her.

Meh.... That's pretty non-PUA stuff there.. What does it accomplish? Sure, I get my little jab in, but it ruins it for the future..

When I did sales (selling myself as a personal trainer), I knew how to paint people into a corner so that their only option was to hire me.. And when they would "cheat" or pull some sht out of the blue that makes no sense, I COULD call them on their bullsht, and get that little bit of satisfaction.. but for what? It's juvenile... and bad business.. although tempting..

Instead, I just let it go.. leave 'em sweet is what they say in sales, and sales is a hell of a lot like PUA.

This applies, also, to when you get blown off, dumped, etc by a girl. It is SOOO tempting to fire something back at them to make them feel like sht.. but for what? Leave 'em sweet, guys... Leave 'em sweet.

lol I don't think its non-PUA or PUA. Its just the truth. You can't wrap your world around the idea of everything must be a PUA response or not.

Just as tripp stated. You do have better things to do and their are many girls in your life to hang out with. What AFC guy would say that. None because their afraid of hurting a girls feeling.

Next time she wants to hang out flake on her. Do something fun with the buddies. Let her know your time is valuable and precious. Let her know you can always be do something better. A simple "No I already got plans but if they fall through I will give you a call" would do alot of things. She is plan B

Whoopie wrote:

Cock Diesel wrote:

L.A. Tripp wrote:

Cock Diesel wrote:

Whoopie wrote:

"Its ok, I was hoping you would bite...So I could flake on you anyways"

All your trying to prove that their is alot more things to do than just her.

Dude I have no idea what you just said..

It saves face for you. The statement tells her "I was hoping you would respond so I could do what you do and flake on you. Because I don't need you, and you're gonna know that."

Just as he explained, there are a lot more things you can do in your life than just be with her.

Meh.... That's pretty non-PUA stuff there.. What does it accomplish? Sure, I get my little jab in, but it ruins it for the future..

When I did sales (selling myself as a personal trainer), I knew how to paint people into a corner so that their only option was to hire me.. And when they would "cheat" or pull some sht out of the blue that makes no sense, I COULD call them on their bullsht, and get that little bit of satisfaction.. but for what? It's juvenile... and bad business.. although tempting..

Instead, I just let it go.. leave 'em sweet is what they say in sales, and sales is a hell of a lot like PUA.

This applies, also, to when you get blown off, dumped, etc by a girl. It is SOOO tempting to fire something back at them to make them feel like sht.. but for what? Leave 'em sweet, guys... Leave 'em sweet.

lol I don't think its non-PUA or PUA. Its just the truth. You can't wrap your world around the idea of everything must be a PUA response or not.

Just as tripp stated. You do have better things to do and their are many girls in your life to hang out with. What AFC guy would say that. None because their afraid of hurting a girls feeling.

Next time she wants to hang out flake on her. Do something fun with the buddies. Let her know your time is valuable and precious. Let her know you can always be do something better. A simple "No I already got plans but if they fall through I will give you a call" would do alot of things. She is plan B

Now that is pretty good shit, there.. I'm definitely a fan of having her believe she is plan B, or that if she falls through, I have 10 other women I can call who would love to hang out with me.. The problem is, you can't SAY these things to her.. So you have to think up something creative that is more indirect. I'll give you and example from last week.

I was having out patient surgery done, but still needed a ride home.
I tell HB "They tell me I need a ride home after surgery.. I told them I'd ask my gf, but if she can't do it, will you pick me up?"

HB: Um.. I guess..
ME: I'm just playing :p you're my girl

So HB agrees to pick me up. However, a couple days before the surgery, she texts me to tell me she can't now because she has another appointment with a lawyer (I believe this is genuine.. she's going through some real tough shit right now because she is basically mediating a law process bc her dad's english isn't so good. I"m surprised she is as cool as she is).

Anyway, I -immediately- text back:
ME: No problem. Already got it covered.

This leaves HB wondering if SHE was even my first option to pick me up.. ANyway, not a great example, but it's where I'm getting at.

I like your frame and how you phrase things in those last two posts, they are vague enough that you leave her wondering, while not saying anything that can be held against you, you merely dismiss it and it is viewed as a joke. When you said that "you can't say those things to her", you were wrong, because that's exactly what you're doing by talking to her the way you did in those examples. Sometimes the most effective way to tell someone something, is to not say it and let them imagine for themselves, while not giving them any concrete things that they can hold against you, it's all just what they are imagining. When a girl says something like, "I can't I have an appointment with a lawyer", even though you believe it to be true, part of you is still thinking inside, "I wonder if she's blowing me off?" That's how you have to make her think, by using similar tactics, not the ambiguous messages that start fights and drama, but by leaving her wondering and filling in the blanks with her own doubts.