confused by flaker

DTM wrote:

well today (monday) is my only day off this week, so i told her that and she wants me to come over today. this chick likes all the same stuff i do, its awesome. ive never encountered this before

when she asked me to spend the night some time this week, i replied with "i dont know, i'd have to ask your parents first..." LOL u shouldve seen the look on her face. I got that idea from that bachlorette show clip Tripp posted

Awesome. So spend the night tonight, and don't you dare use the excuse later that you can't stay again because you have to work. If she enjoys the night tonight with you the fact that you have to work won't matter. That's just a mental block in your own mind. Anyway, glad that clip helped you to catch her off guard, lol. Have fun with her man. You KNOW you're getting laid.

I have one question. What if i bring like 2 condoms in my pocket, and she ends up feeling them in my pocket, then gets pissed thinking that im only there to have sex? what would i say in that situation?

the only thing with work is that i work from 6pm-11pm as a valet. im not really using that as mental block. she works during the day. i can get of early a few times a week tho

DTM wrote:

I have one question. What if i bring like 2 condoms in my pocket, and she ends up feeling them in my pocket, then gets pissed thinking that im only there to have sex? what would i say in that situation?

the only thing with work is that i work from 6pm-11pm as a valet. im not really using that as mental block. she works during the day. i can get of early a few times a week tho

This one isn't too hard to deal with. Put it all on her and take no responsibility for it, remove yourself from any blame.

Her: "OMG, you just came here hoping to get laid!"
PUA: "I came here with no intentions of getting laid what-so-ever (this makes it quite clear that it wasn't your intention, much more than just saying you weren't looking to get laid and you can even sound taken aback and offended/slightly upset to make it more effective). I was in boyscouts darling. Ever heard the motto, "Always be prepared"? I don't plan on having sex when I go to the store to get groceries, but I still have a couple in my jacket pocket at all times, because that way I don't HAVE to think about planning it and when it may or may not happen."

*Now you lower your tone and switch slowly make it more like when you're in seduction.*

"If you ended up wanting to have sex and I didn't have condoms and you didn't have condoms, as you may not consider that your responsibility, then it would ruin the moment and you would be upset at me. This way they're there if ever things were to move in that direction, but I'm not planning on moving them in that direction...unless you are."

Whenever a girl gets upset at a guy for something, the guy often gets defensive, personally I prefer to go on the attack, it throws her off balance and isn't what she expects, so I gain the upper hand. She will be more offended if you say that you brought them along "just in case", but if you tell her that you're always prepared and then lay it on her, as being her choice that she may have made to have sex with you and saying that she would have been pissed if you didn't have them then and ruining the moment, then she'll most likely agree with you. You've disqualified her, so she no longer thinks you're just about getting in her pants, then you just switch topics to something fun and happy and move on. This also puts the thoughts in her head of her choosing to have sex with you and that it is a possibility because you came prepared, which is sometimes a concern when having sex for the first time.

DTM wrote:

I have one question. What if i bring like 2 condoms in my pocket, and she ends up feeling them in my pocket, then gets pissed thinking that im only there to have sex? what would i say in that situation?

the only thing with work is that i work from 6pm-11pm as a valet. im not really using that as mental block. she works during the day. i can get of early a few times a week tho

OK, to the first part . . . she KNOWS you're there for sex. She wouldn't invite you over if she DIDN'T want sex. With that in mind, for her to feel condoms will make her feel SAFER knowing that you are PREPARED. So get this out of your mind. She wants to have sex with you man. Enjoy it.

So, she works during the day, you work in the evening. Cool . . . spend the night together and start over the next day. No problem. You two can still have fun during the night.

L.A. Tripp wrote:

DTM wrote:

I have one question. What if i bring like 2 condoms in my pocket, and she ends up feeling them in my pocket, then gets pissed thinking that im only there to have sex? what would i say in that situation?

the only thing with work is that i work from 6pm-11pm as a valet. im not really using that as mental block. she works during the day. i can get of early a few times a week tho

OK, to the first part . . . she KNOWS you're there for sex. She wouldn't invite you over if she DIDN'T want sex. With that in mind, for her to feel condoms will make her feel SAFER knowing that you are PREPARED. So get this out of your mind. She wants to have sex with you man. Enjoy it.

So, she works during the day, you work in the evening. Cool . . . spend the night together and start over the next day. No problem. You two can still have fun during the night.

Agreed. I think my advice is only relevant if she ends up noticing you are packing before you have reached that point and she isn't a sexually mature person.

Rye Lee wrote:

DTM wrote:

I have one question. What if i bring like 2 condoms in my pocket, and she ends up feeling them in my pocket, then gets pissed thinking that im only there to have sex? what would i say in that situation?

the only thing with work is that i work from 6pm-11pm as a valet. im not really using that as mental block. she works during the day. i can get of early a few times a week tho

This one isn't too hard to deal with. Put it all on her and take no responsibility for it, remove yourself from any blame.

Her: "OMG, you just came here hoping to get laid!"
PUA: "I came here with no intentions of getting laid what-so-ever (this makes it quite clear that it wasn't your intention, much more than just saying you weren't looking to get laid and you can even sound taken aback and offended/slightly upset to make it more effective). I was in boyscouts darling. Ever heard the motto, "Always be prepared"? I don't plan on having sex when I go to the store to get groceries, but I still have a couple in my jacket pocket at all times, because that way I don't HAVE to think about planning it and when it may or may not happen."

*Now you lower your tone and switch slowly make it more like when you're in seduction.*

"If you ended up wanting to have sex and I didn't have condoms and you didn't have condoms, as you may not consider that your responsibility, then it would ruin the moment and you would be upset at me. This way they're there if ever things were to move in that direction, but I'm not planning on moving them in that direction...unless you are."

Whenever a girl gets upset at a guy for something, the guy often gets defensive, personally I prefer to go on the attack, it throws her off balance and isn't what she expects, so I gain the upper hand. She will be more offended if you say that you brought them along "just in case", but if you tell her that you're always prepared and then lay it on her, as being her choice that she may have made to have sex with you and saying that she would have been pissed if you didn't have them then and ruining the moment, then she'll most likely agree with you. You've disqualified her, so she no longer thinks you're just about getting in her pants, then you just switch topics to something fun and happy and move on. This also puts the thoughts in her head of her choosing to have sex with you and that it is a possibility because you came prepared, which is sometimes a concern when having sex for the first time.

I disagree.
A) You should always take responsibility for your own actions. Dont put the blame on her.
B) Yes, you did go over there to get laid. DUH! No need to deny that. Many women can see past that BS.

All you have to say is "I always keep them on hand" "I like to be responsible"
Change topics.

I think you missed my point Meg. When I said to put the blame on her and take it off of yourself, I meant that you reverse the roles, so that SHE is the one that is agressing, not you, SHE is the one bringing up and thinking about sex and you are insinuating that it is HER that is going to be instigating sex, which plants the thought in her head.

Sure, you went ove there because you are interested in sex obviously, but I never expect sex and I don't think anyone ever should expect it unless they are paying for it. You can hope for it, but to expect it is just arrogant. Thus, it's not a lie when you say that you didn't go over there intending to have sex, because that wasn't you "intention", it was merely a possibility that you came prepared for. In the instance that he laid out, the girl would be basically saying that that was his only cause for coming, which should never be your only cause, IMO if you can't enjoy hanging out with a girl without fucking her, then you shouldn't be hanging out with her.

This kind of thinking just really bugs me, cause the girl I was going out with a few months ago basically implied that the only interest I had in her was fucking her, because 2/3 times she came over that's what happened. I enjoy having sex, but that is not my only reason for having a relationship with a girl and everything I said in that other post was the truth. Although in some places only half the truth, there are reasons why we as PUAs say things the way we do and that is because we get the girl to take responsibility for HER desires, which is something that doesn't happen often, it is always us "evil men" that are horny and interested in sex, but NEVER the women. That's BS and you as a woman know this. Why should I take the full responsibility for having condoms, she is blaming me for thinking of sex, when she is doing just that!

I feel that a large part of what we do as PUAs, is even things out. Society has brainwashed us into thinking that men are the agressors, that men are the ones interested in sex and women in cuddling and romance; I used to have no luck with women and sometimes still screw myself over, because I'm more romantic than many women and yet I am supposed to be taking responsibility for my sexual desires, yet she isn't. Give me equality, or give me nothing; this is what I use my skills for, not to take advantage of women and manipulate them, but to level the playing field and make them take responsibility for their side of things.

/end rant.

ok so i just got back from her place. omg what a disaster! here is the story: I got there and she ordered some pizza and we started drinking some rum and coke. The sexual tension was high because we knew we couldnt do anything until after that pizza came. so the pizza came, we ate it. we watched a little bit of tv, then we started making out. she got on top of me and we were goin at it. i start to take her shirt off (i pulled it up past her bra) and she pulls it back down. she said something like "we need to slow down" or "lets wait a bit" (i cant rememeber exactly). So i froze her out. i almost lost my frame freezing her out, but i maintained myself. Well, the freeze out totally worked, and next thing u know we are going at it again. I get her shirt off no problem. Bra off, then my shirt, then her pants, etc. So i get her panties off and she stops me and says "im not on birth control". So i say "no problem, i got it" and pulled out the condoms. She wasnt upset at all by me having condoms. The bad thing is that this TOTALLY broke my flow. i started to get nervous cause i was getting soft, which only made me MORE nervous. . I finally got it half hard and got the condom on then i was inside her for a bit. I thought everything was good cause i started to get hard again, but then it slipped out and i got stoft trying to get it back in! omg things just went downhill from there. I dont usually have this problem. I think im gonna blame it on that damn rum that got me all tired and the break in my flow. Next time im bringing lube.

All hope has not been lost though. She was apologizing like it was her fault and everything. We still cuddled and kissed afterwards. Later i gave her oral and then she gave me oral. I got it hard for that and kept it hard, but i dont usually get off to bj's. I was too nervous to try to get a condom on again and do her at that point jesus christ....

she just sent me a text that said "hey i had a great time hanging out tonight. sorry i got so sleepy" I still feel like total crap after this tho

Man, don't be so hard on yourself, these things DO happen. Also, if she's the first girl you're having sex with after having employed your PU skills, it tends to give a different feeling to things. You are
half thinking about wanting to have sex with her and half thinking about what you should be doing next, doing freeze-outs and stuff and running over stuff advice people may have given you that pops into your head and that just adds to the nervousness. I mean, I could be wrong, but from how you wrote it, it sounds like you were kinda in that mindset to me and that can definitely be distracting, so you've got to just live in the moment and enjoy it.

Also, believe it or not, women are really quite understanding, I mean, they don't have to DO anything in order to be capable of having sex, so the fact that we have something that has to be functional, they seem to get that if it doesn't work, it isn't exactly like a light switch (at least this is my experience and I've experienced this...more than I'd like to have, due to being diabetic and having terrible blood circulation). Here's the thing, realise that she's understanding of this, don't worry about it, give yourself a break and next time try not to think about it, just enjoy yourself, cause you know she did the other night and she will again.

DTM wrote:

ok so i just got back from her place. omg what a disaster! here is the story: I got there and she ordered some pizza and we started drinking some rum and coke. The sexual tension was high because we knew we couldnt do anything until after that pizza came. so the pizza came, we ate it. we watched a little bit of tv, then we started making out. she got on top of me and we were goin at it. i start to take her shirt off (i pulled it up past her bra) and she pulls it back down. she said something like "we need to slow down" or "lets wait a bit" (i cant rememeber exactly). So i froze her out. i almost lost my frame freezing her out, but i maintained myself. Well, the freeze out totally worked, and next thing u know we are going at it again. I get her shirt off no problem. Bra off, then my shirt, then her pants, etc. So i get her panties off and she stops me and says "im not on birth control". So i say "no problem, i got it" and pulled out the condoms. She wasnt upset at all by me having condoms. The bad thing is that this TOTALLY broke my flow. i started to get nervous cause i was getting soft, which only made me MORE nervous. . I finally got it half hard and got the condom on then i was inside her for a bit. I thought everything was good cause i started to get hard again, but then it slipped out and i got stoft trying to get it back in! omg things just went downhill from there. I dont usually have this problem. I think im gonna blame it on that damn rum that got me all tired and the break in my flow. Next time im bringing lube.

All hope has not been lost though. She was apologizing like it was her fault and everything. We still cuddled and kissed afterwards. Later i gave her oral and then she gave me oral. I got it hard for that and kept it hard, but i dont usually get off to bj's. I was too nervous to try to get a condom on again and do her at that point jesus christ....

she just sent me a text that said "hey i had a great time hanging out tonight. sorry i got so sleepy" I still feel like total crap after this tho

Told you she wanted you and wouldn't be worried about the condoms, lol. See, I do know a little something here, lol.

Anyway, great going on what did happen. However . . . I thought you were spending the night . . .

well since monday things have gone significantly downhill

i have talked to and texted her throughout the week

wednesday she was very busy, but told me if she got stuff done she would like to have coffee with me. Never happened.

Thursday there was no contact between the two of us at all

friday (today) i sent her a text around 5:30PM saying "it would be nice if u made some kind of effort to contact me" She replied with "im sorry, are you going out tonite?" I replied "are you?" she replied "yes". I called her, and she answered, telling me to call her back at 6. I call her at 6, no answer, i call her at 7:30, no answer. I went out anyway and it sucked, too crowded, no good oppurtunites to approach women. its 1am now and i havent heard from her. Thats 3 times she has flaked out on me. 3 strikes and ur out. I am not going to contact her again. what a bitch, shes not worth the stress

Quote :

"it would be nice if u made some kind of effort to contact me"

It's too bad that people view these sorts of statements as being passive aggressive, because it will end up limiting what you're able to achieve with girls. It's her loss that she didn't understand you were just upset that she was too busy to get together with you and misstook you for being arrogant.

As Introducing NLP taught me, "Meaning is what the other person interprets, not what you intended".

I hope you get my meaning, but if not, I'd be happy to elaborate, because I believe this to be a very important lesson.

i just said what was on my mind. i felt like being real. i got tired of dealing with her, shes not worth it. im going away to college on the 15th. i cant wait, theres gonna be so many more opportunities out there

DTM wrote:

well since monday things have gone significantly downhill

i have talked to and texted her throughout the week

wednesday she was very busy, but told me if she got stuff done she would like to have coffee with me. Never happened.

Thursday there was no contact between the two of us at all

friday (today) i sent her a text around 5:30PM saying "it would be nice if u made some kind of effort to contact me" She replied with "im sorry, are you going out tonite?" I replied "are you?" she replied "yes". I called her, and she answered, telling me to call her back at 6. I call her at 6, no answer, i call her at 7:30, no answer. I went out anyway and it sucked, too crowded, no good oppurtunites to approach women. its 1am now and i havent heard from her. Thats 3 times she has flaked out on me. 3 strikes and ur out. I am not going to contact her again. what a bitch, shes not worth the stress

You saying "it would be nice if you made some kind of effort to contact me" may have come across as arrogant, although I think she took you as being shy, needy, and clingy. I just asked a girl as well, and she said she would take it as the guy being shy.

I'll tell you right now what happened man. The night you were with her changed the dynamic, plain and simple. You could have changed the course of this week by staying the night with her. You were definitely being needy when you kept contacting her afterward. Oh, and by the way . . . "too crowded, no opportunities to approach women" is, to be blunt, bullshit. That's the whole idea man. You go out to a crowded place to have MORE opportunities to approach. That was your AA getting in the way. There were MORE not LESS opportunities. That's the advantage of the crowd. Quit being so shy.

actually i felt very confident last night, there just werent any good chicks out there.

so i am a bit needy and a bit clingy. maybe i need a girl who is willing to give me attention. sorry but i cant hold all my emotions inside, i dont want to be with a girl who isnt willing to give me some attention. thats why im moving on and going to keep looking. Staying the night with her would not have changed anything. i cant fake that i am an ultra confident alpha male all the time.

DTM wrote:

actually i felt very confident last night, there just werent any good chicks out there.

*cough* . . . cop out . . . *cough*

Quote :

so i am a bit needy and a bit clingy. maybe i need a girl who is willing to give me attention. sorry but i cant hold all my emotions inside, i dont want to be with a girl who isnt willing to give me some attention. thats why im moving on and going to keep looking. Staying the night with her would not have changed anything. i cant fake that i am an ultra confident alpha male all the time.

Maybe you need a girl who is willing to give you attention? You won't get that by being needy and clingy bro. I'm just being straight with you. You're not supposed to hold your emotions inside. That isn't what we're saying at all. Can you prove that staying the night with her wouldn't have changed the dynamic?

can you prove that it would?? were u there??

needy/clingy is excessive calling or saying "i love you" or some shit early on. if i was being too needy or too clingy with this girl, then fuck it; she's too strict for me. i dont want to be with someone who plays games like that.

DTM wrote:

can you prove that it would?? were u there??

needy/clingy is excessive calling or saying "i love you" or some shit early on. if i was being too needy or too clingy with this girl, then fuck it; she's too strict for me. i dont want to be with someone who plays games like that.

Dan, why do you CONTINUALLY argue against the advice or input that you get? Maybe we should say fuck it, we're tired of giving input?

Do you not realize that some of us know a thing or two?

dont be an ass to me though. every time u give me advice, u find a way to be an ass about it. thats the impression i get


i know 2 girls as friends, and i have told them the complete story (not at the same time) and they both could only come up with two logical reasons for the way she is. Either she is psycho and has emotional problems, or she doesnt want to get attached because i am going away to school and she is going to be out of state for 5 weeks for her job in september. Neither of them said i was being too needy. i trust the female opinion.

the only reason why im upset/hung up on the issue is because i never got closure. she just flaked out on me and stopped contacting me. I'd rather her tell me a ton of things that are wrong with me emotionally/physically than not know at all why she stopped contacting me. I had a lot in common with her, which i have never really experienced with a girl before

DTM wrote:

dont be an ass to me though. every time u give me advice, u find a way to be an ass about it. thats the impression i get


i know 2 girls as friends, and i have told them the complete story (not at the same time) and they both could only come up with two logical reasons for the way she is. Either she is psycho and has emotional problems, or she doesnt want to get attached because i am going away to school and she is going to be out of state for 5 weeks for her job in september. Neither of them said i was being too needy. i trust the female opinion.

the only reason why im upset/hung up on the issue is because i never got closure. she just flaked out on me and stopped contacting me. I'd rather her tell me a ton of things that are wrong with me emotionally/physically than not know at all why she stopped contacting me. I had a lot in common with her, which i have never really experienced with a girl before

Because they're girls, that means they understand how to attract and deal with women in a way that creates powerful relationships? If that's your assumption, then you're wrong, cause most girls I know, know jack shit about why they or any girl does what they do and they base their advice upon emotional assumptions, instead of thinking things through from a psychological standpoint. You came here looking for advice from guys that KNOW stuff, guys that have put things into practice and have yielded results time and time again. I can talk to a girl and she'll tell me why she did something and then I'll dissect it and she'll realise everything that she thought she knew was wrong, because she was basing it upon her beliefs and not upon the facts of what really occurred.

You keep clinging to the belief that you want things to happen the way you want and if she doesn't play ball the way you want, then screw her, she's obviously not good enough for you, then you're going to continue to be dissappointed and there is no point in trying to learn to be a PUA, because you are going against many of the lessons. I'm not saying there's only one way, hell I'm a highly unconventional PUA compared to many people and Tripp can vouch for this, but that also means that I don't get the same results as those guys and I have no problem admitting it, cause that's just the truth. There are lines that I have chosen not to cross, at least at this point and I blaze my own trail in some ways, so I don't get as many girls as the guys that do what is tried and proven to work, yet I still follow the same basic principles.

I too like a girl that will give me attention, that will contact me, that doesn't flake and such, but I know that by telling her it would be nice if she contacted me, that it isn't going to yield the same result as any number of other strategies that follow the principles. I know that I am a highly emotional person and in the past I have proven to get needy in relationships, but that has always turned out poorly, so I work on a different approach, because I KNOW that I have the ability to change my approach and that will change my results.

Here's a great quote for you:

"When you're doing something wrong and no one is bothering to tell you anymore, that is a bad place to be. It means they gave up on you. Your critics are the ones telling you they still love you and care" - Randy Pausch

Now, as Tripp is saying Dan; you can listen to those girls that are telling you that you are in the right and that she is the one that isn't playing the game properly, but how many girls have said shit like, "I just want a NICE GUY!" and then they go for the assholes. They don't CARE, they aren't awake at 2:45am writing a post to some guy that they've never met, in the hopes of giving you an epiphany that will help you make your life better, for no other reason than out of the goodness of their heart. I'm not getting paid for this shit, so why am I posting? I CARE, do they? Does Tripp? Look around and figure out who's trying to give you the advice to get you the results you tell us you want and who is just telling you what you want to hear, because at some point, that quote is gonna become a little too real and no one is gonna be giving advice anymore and you're not gonna have changed anything, because you didn't want to eat a bit of humble pie and accept that you are human and make mistakes.

When I have some serious issues in my game that I need help with, who's the guy I go to? TRIPP IS! Man, he gives it to me HARD. He has told me that I'm being a fucking idiot and that I've gotta turn shit around, cause I'm acting like an AFC with one-itis and he mocked me and he made it sting, whether he intended to or not, it fucking hurt. But here's the thing, I knew that he wasn't doing it to be an asshole, he wasn't doing it to make himself feel better, he was doing it, cause he genuinely cared about helping me out and helping me get over my shit and not make the same mistakes anymore. TOUGH LOVE. HE CARES. Don't call the guy an asshole for being blunt and honest, just try and seek the wisdom in his words and take them in the best way possible, while remembering that he is only doing it to help you and that if you keep telling him to fuck off with his advice, that sooner or later you're gonna get your wish.

If you work with us, rather than making this a You vs. Us sort of thing, then we will find solutions that work with who you are and what you are and aren't willing to do, just don't tell us that we're wrong and don't know what we're talking about and that you're right and we should listen to you, cause that's not how advice works. I've tried that in the past and it ended poorly, so these days when I ask for advice I say, "Ok, I'll work on that, but how can I overcome this, while still holding true to my values of ______?"

I'll leave you with one final thing and it's a twist on a very well known quote:

"If you want to keep getting what you've always gotten, then just keep doing what you've always done, otherwise, accept some constructive criticism and make some changes."

DTM wrote:

well since monday things have gone significantly downhill

i have talked to and texted her throughout the week

wednesday she was very busy, but told me if she got stuff done she would like to have coffee with me. Never happened.

Thursday there was no contact between the two of us at all

friday (today) i sent her a text around 5:30PM saying "it would be nice if u made some kind of effort to contact me" She replied with "im sorry, are you going out tonite?" I replied "are you?" she replied "yes". I called her, and she answered, telling me to call her back at 6. I call her at 6, no answer, i call her at 7:30, no answer. I went out anyway and it sucked, too crowded, no good oppurtunites to approach women. its 1am now and i havent heard from her. Thats 3 times she has flaked out on me. 3 strikes and ur out. I am not going to contact her again. what a bitch, shes not worth the stress

Quote :

can you prove that it would?? were u there??

needy/clingy is excessive calling or saying "i love you" or some shit early on. if i was being too needy or too clingy with this girl, then fuck it; she's too strict for me. i dont want to be with someone who plays games like that.

You defined needy/clingy as excessive calling , yet you just told on yourself. You tex her first, then you call her twice within 1 1/2hrs. Then u say what a bitch...excuse me but if a guy bugged me that much I would flush him and I don't think I stand alone. So you just lowered your standards by doing that and then u go out and say u have no good opportunities to approach other women...that there CRIES OUT not over her yet like u said. Look man there are always opportunities around us; its all in how u look at things. Also, I'm not saying that it is bad for you to be needy/clingy or show emotions but I would wait and show those feelings later in the relationship when you both feel comfortable with each other and start expressing your desires and needs to each other. Your going to scare the girls away if you show that up front.

Quote :

dont be an ass to me though. every time u give me advice, u find a way to be an ass about it. thats the impression i get


i know 2 girls as friends, and i have told them the complete story (not at the same time) and they both could only come up with two logical reasons for the way she is. Either she is psycho and has emotional problems, or she doesnt want to get attached because i am going away to school and she is going to be out of state for 5 weeks for her job in september. Neither of them said i was being too needy. i trust the female opinion.

the only reason why im upset/hung up on the issue is because i never got closure. she just flaked out on me and stopped contacting me. I'd rather her tell me a ton of things that are wrong with me emotionally/physically than not know at all why she stopped contacting me. I had a lot in common with her, which i have never really experienced with a girl before

It doesn't sound like anyone is being an ass to you. They are giving you advice that you asked for and are not using. Anyway, the whole closure thing....do you really want to know what she is thinking....and if she did how would u take her opinion? You obviously don't take constructive criticism well here on the forum so how would you handle hers. What if she said, "Oh my god, he keeps calling and texing me over and over; when is he going to get the idea I don't like you leave me alone." "Damn he is psycho or has emotional problems." or "Damn you suck in bed" whatever she says u still wouldn't like it cuz u can't even handle it here from people who are trying to help you. Anyway, the majority of the girls that guys go out with don't tell the guys why they don't like them or why they don't want to go out. No matter how much u or other guys out there who would want closure are going to get it.

DTM,

Tripp, Rye, and Siren have given you some excellent information here. I'm not going to add a lot of input because it looks like things have been explained more than enough. I can understand sometimes the advice given on the forum is a tough pill to swallow. This stuff is personal, it's emotional, and it's something that isn't easy to talk about. It becomes difficult to detach from the emotions of it all, and look at it from an outsider's perspective. That's what we are here for, to give you that perspective.

I hope you are able to take this information, learn something from it, and apply it because I see a lot of potentional in you to get really good at this stuff if you wanted to.

I'll back up something Rye said about Tripp for a moment. If you didn't want us involved then you wouldn't have posted this. So when you tell people like Tripp to basically leave you alone, you might just get your wish, and that would be a mistake. He's just here to help you. Yeah, he pisses me off sometimes too with the way he's blunt with his gut checks, but we need that personality aroudn that won't sugar coat things too.

PEACE,

Jon