Girls try to change guys, is it ok for guys to do the same?

Many guys know and many girls will openly tell you that when they first meet a guy or first start dating a guy they think of it like a project...gotta dress him different, gotta get him to enjoy x,y,z with me, change certain behaviors, etc. Usually this is a combination of self interest and best intent.

My question is, is it ok for a guy to look at a girl and think about how he can change her? under what circumstances is it ok?

Ex: You meet a girl who is over weight, but has attractive features like a pretty face. You have a chemistry and possibly start dating...is it ok to try to get her to the gym? Is it ok if your not concerned with her own health but instead because you want to see how she will look thinner?

Of course in the example i dont mean to straight up tell her to goto the gym...when a girl "works" on a guy they do it subtly and through implications. So in the above scenario you would invite her to the gym with you, maybe prior to it talk up how good you feel since you started going to the gym.

What are your thoughts on this subject? I know we often say "leave them better then you found them"...but is it right if your convictions for doing so are self serving?

Eh, I see nothing wrong with trying to change (for her benefit) a gal. I would only do it she wanted to though, believe it or not some people are happy the way they are.

There is nothing wrong with changing someone if they WANT to be changed, I think this goes both ways. You should never try to drain someones spirit or stop them doing the things they like doing.

Anything particular brought this on Ka?

I've made the mistake of trying to change people before. I've been seeing a girl for the last couple of weeks who drinks FAR too much and I've just recently decided to move on. I've also made the mistake of datting 18 yearolds with the hope that they're mature as we're datting and realised that it firstly it doesn't happen and also that they should be free to enjoy being young women.

Actually the scenario i used as an example is pretty much what brought it on. I used to date a girl who at the time was not fat nor slender...we had an awesome chemistry and then broke things off because of a misunderstanding...years later we just got back in touch now...and from her profile pics she has put on some weight, but her personality seems to still be in line with what i liked about her then.

So i had a thought about trying to get her to the gym through a combination of story telling and commenting on my gym experiences (to make it seem extremely positive and appealing) and then suggestively trying to get her to go with me.

What struck me though was that my impulse for doing so was not a concern for her or her health, but instead my own curiosity and desire to have her be thinner.

In anycase since posting this i had brought up my going to the gym, a couple comments about it, and she asked what gym i goto because the one she used to goto is now too far from her new house. So i may try to get her to get a membership at my gym and maybe even go with me...but i dont want to get there until i know that we will at least be friends and be hanging out, and secondly if its not too far from where she is (i dont want to have to constantly wait on her to get there, thus killing my desire to go).

Well it sounds like she wants to improve herself as well so go for it. Yeah your motivations are slightly self-centered but it sounds like you are a positive influence on her.

There is no such thing as being selfless, everything we do, is to feed our own selfishness. Now, selfishness is, by it self, not a bad word. Take it out of the context of normal use, and it only describes the act of taking care of one self, to make one feel good and satisfied.

Think about the guy that always gives to charity, is he doing it because the cause is just, or because he feels good about supporting a just cause? The answer is always the same, doing good deeds, makes us feel good. And thus, helping others is a selfish act.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that, remember we have to take the word out of context and focus on it by it self.

What about influencing someone else's life, or choices for your own benefit? E.g. changing something, that will affect another person, for your own benefit and selfish needs?
You might help the other person, or you might set them on a path they can not follow to the end, and thus break their spirit by the act of not following their dreams or ambitions through. = Bad choice to make for the other party
You might help the other person see a change, that makes them want to change themselves and lift their spirits and help him achieving his goals, by pointing them out = Good choice for the other party
You might enforce your believes on another, by showing them the err of their ways and force them to confirm to your standards, an act they will not object in order to keep the status quo, meaning a person is being pushed into doing something unwanted or even against their true will, to satisfy your own needs = Bad choice for the other party since the change won't hold and might damage/hurt the person
You might help jumpstart a person unwilling to face facts, and get them to take action to better their own life, which can lead to a drastic improvement in the standard of living for that person = Good choice for the other party

All four(examples, not a complete list) actions are selfish acts, that make you feel good about yourself for a a)short period, b)long term
The chances that the other party improves or gains from your decision = unsure

The best way to help someone with a task, is to share your own experience at what can be done, and offer a helping hand if the other person shows the initiative on her own. Taking the power to change someone in your own hands is a less than desirable action, even though feeding your own selfish needs and panting the decision pretty

I spent 2 years of my life with a woman I loved, in order to help her change her self destructive behavior, in the end she broke me and our relationship with the same behavior, since my attempts at helping made her even worse in the long term, since my attempts failed and she returned to her original 'factory settings' twice as hard

Ka,
well i'll tell you about my past gf, through some soccer games, stories about me going to international competitions, and buying a couple of balls (soccer balls haha) we "decided" to register a soccer class together which was pretty good exercise for both of us; i think it's normal to want her to be more atractive and fit (especially because if you are going to the gym that is what you want for yourself, so you normally would want a partner that does the same thing).
Right now, i'm dating a girl which isn't fat but she's got some... (don't know the word damn).. haha well... figure what i mean (rolls?)... so i will ask her time to time if she's running (she's got a treadmill in her house), as something normal in our conversation, and i'll invite her to do exercise with me. The way i see it, is that we all want to be with someone attractive to us, so if you mind fat, you should tell her hahaha (discretly)... and try to change her but be very sutil. In the other hand if you don't then it doesn't matter...
hope this help!
suerte!

Ka, maybe she got into a slump or had nobody to go with? You never know. I dont think its a bad thing especially if its a healthy lifestyle change. It only becomes a negative thing if you try to make her into someone she will never be (same goes with girls changing guys).