Seducing women from your past + my story

(Please feel free not to read my story and just discussing the main topic!)

I would like to start by saying that I am in a period of frequent ups and downs, on average quite heartbroken and sour (mostly due to some issues in health and family), and I would be grateful if you could keep this in mind while replying to me. I'm truly not in the mood for bad jokes, which - unfortunately – I always encounter in the world of internet forums since my questions are 'unwelcome'...

I am not a PUA and I am here merely to ask a few questions, and I believe that some of your answers are probably more insightful than what common wisdom would suggest. After which I would like to depict a summary of my own specific story. It seems quite impossible to solve and from what I know about the PUA lifestyle/philosophy, I don't think you would be able to find any solution either. Still, I will appreciate ideas, also if they are just theoretical/abstract.

The whole discussion revolves around how or whether your experience and what you have learned in PUA/seduction methods have influenced/changed your relationships towards women you already knew before. This may include, for example, ex-girlfriends, women who rejected you, women who are your friends, etc.
Getting to know new people has always been a powerful and effective way to change our lives and sometimes (sometimes!) also people who used to be part of our past have learned to accept our changes and see us in an entirely new and different light. I am curious about whether the same applies for women and attracting them.

So...
1. Do you feel that your new lifestyle or the new methods you learned to seduce women have also changed the way women from your past perceive you?
2. Have you actually managed to seduce women from your past (ex-girlfriends, especially if they dumped you; women who rejected you, etc.)?
3. If yes, could you write the most significant examples?
4. If yes, what do you think most contributed to achieving these outcomes? Your new 'reputation' or the skills you learned?

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My story

My own story is a bit more complicated, but the four questions are related to it in many ways:
When I was at high school, there was a girl with whom I had a kind of intimate friendship. We spoke about everything, from life to philosophy to science to health, and then about love, sex, our boyfriends and girlfriends. And we also had sex. I don't know whether the term f**k-buddy or 'booty call' applies here, since we didn't have only sex, but did many other things in common, too.
After finishing high school, I didn't hear from her for four years until we met again online via instant messenger. She is studying abroad.
Several months before meeting her again, I had met with a major accident that changed my attitude towards life and death: I somehow became more 'serious'. More inclined to have serious relationships rather than just playing around.
I think that this attitude made me believe or expect something more from her. We chatted a lot, really a lot. Sometimes more than 8 hours a day, sometimes also doing cyber**x via webcam.
I had fun, but for some reason I thought that since we knew each other since so long time, there was something 'more' between us. She fed me with that impression. She even told me she loved me, but I was very careful since I knew very well from our past that she is probably the perfect female PUA :-)
These online conversations went on for about 5-6 months, and one day she said she would visit me. She was literally sending me 20 phone text messages a week, with purely romantic content. I really couldn't figure out whether she wanted sex or 'more'. But a few days before coming, she told me something she hadn't said during all those months:'You know, I'm in a wonderful relationship actually. Since almost two years.' I discovered through acquaintances that her 'relationship' was an affair with a married man, 30 years older than her, who is also a quite famous businessman and politician in his city. I was pretty confused then.
On the day she came, I was confused about this, and additionally I hadn't slept nor eaten, was quite stressed due to work and other problems (...). We didn't talk about her 'relationship', but we ended up on the couch making out, and dry-humping without clothes. I was so tired that I was looking distant and almost fell asleep. She got frustrated about that and we stopped. For the rest of the time, she became cold and indifferent, and after she left, she didn't contact me again.
When I tried to ask her via instant messenger, she started criticising me. She never ever used such a negative tone with me in all these years. She actually started using words that are normally used by girlfriends when they dump you ('I thought you were strong', 'I am going on my own path now'). I calmed her down a bit, but ever since that day she didn't talk to me again.

Three weeks of pure coldness and indifference. She didn't even wish me for Christmas, nor did she reply to my Christmas greetings.

This upset me very much. While I realize that I probably have no chance at a serious relationship with her, I wonder how come her attitude changed so abruptly. I can move on without her, (you don't need to remind me. I already know there's a world plenty of fish out there..) but I'd rather try to understand what happened and how I can reconcile with her (and restore the previous 'friendship with benefits' we used to have).

Perhaps she got the impression that I had become too relationship-oriented. Or perhaps she was really in love and got frustrated by my stress/distance. I really don't know.

Well, for your questions, I do have an ex that has given me all the signals so the door is wide open for her, but I'm not sure that I want to get caught up in that shit so I haven't gone there. But, I can see it in her eyes, it's there. And, it hasn't come from my reputation at all because she knows nothing about me being involved in any of this. So yes, it is possible to re-seduce your ex's. Now, there are some girls I've gone to school with that, if our paths crossed again, I would go through those doors.

Personally, I don't find your questions unwelcome, but being a part of, and having been a part of, other PUA forums, I can see why you'd run into that shit out there. There are SO many closed minded people.

I welcome you to this forum also. Being a PUA or not, I hope you stick around and get to know us.

Now, for your situation, wow. I'm really curious, why were you two just dry humping if you were both naked?

A little detail here. You said she sent you 20 texts in a week, all romantic. Putting this into a little bit of perspective, I tend to get that many a day from each of a few different girls, all looking for sex. What she's doing isn't THAT big of a deal, but yes, I can see why it IS an important detail.

Alright, she is willing to talk to you about sex and basically tell you she wants sex WHILE she is involved with this married man and DOESN'T immediately tell you she is involved, yet she is still telling you she wants you. So, her mentioning that at the end, just before coming to see you seems to me to be an escape route FOR HER. She still wants you. She knows she stills wants you, yet she's scared. Maybe the fear is related to you being more serious, maybe not. I'm not sure at this point.

Now, after this she is still willing to come to you, get naked with you, and dry hump . . . WHILE she's involved in this great relationship with this married man. Honestly, she was willing to have sex with you WHILE being with this other great man. She was, however, I believe, also looking for an escape route, so her thoughts and desires are conflicting.

I'm thinking that she's actually scared about her relationship with the business man and is taking this fear out on YOU instead of on HIM.

That one comment "I thought you were strong" is jumping out at me. I think she, deep down, wanted you to break through possibly and pull her out of this relationship. She may believe that relationship is doomed but doesn't have the willpower to pull away. Possibly.

For once, lol, I don't have an immediate idea on how to salvage this relationship to put it back where it was. If she was exposed to you frequently, in person, it would be one thing, but if it's all online or through text, that's different. If she chooses not to respond, there's not a whole lot you can do. Obviously a girl will be more likely to respond if there is some huge DESIRE on her part to respond for some specific reason.

We have a couple of girls on this forum. I'll see about getting their input.

Thank you for your kind reply L.A. Tripp. Indeed, I have never read such an insightful attempt to reply to my situation I'm sincerely grateful to you.

L.A. Tripp wrote:

I'm really curious, why were you two just dry humping if you were both naked?

I don't know. I was really too confused, in a surge of mixed emotions, ecstasy and confusion, tiredness, nervousness. What I remember is that I let her take the lead. I was almost not moving (she was on top of me and grinding passionately above my tummy) and somewhere else with my mind. I was even saying strange things (like... 'Your parents would be proud of you!'... it just came out of my mouth)... as if I had smoked something wrong Maybe she thought I had performance anxiety, or that I was creepy...
Still, we cuddled and hugged for a long time after we dressed again, made out with chocolate and cream in our mouth and other funny things like that... She started becoming cold very gradually.

Quote :

You said she sent you 20 texts in a week, all romantic. Putting this into a little bit of perspective, I tend to get that many a day from each of a few different girls, all looking for sex.

Among these texts are also mms with photos of her city, romantic verses, texts such as 'It was so wonderful talking to you' just after she called me for 30 seconds, and 5-6 texts right before she arrived here... 'I'm so excited to see you again!', 'I'm sure this is going to be a wonderful day... you're amazing', etc.
It may also be that she thought I was too serious, but was so willing to have sex with me that she wanted to feed me with the impression that she was serious as well.

Quote :

That one comment "I thought you were strong" is jumping out at me.

I was so surprised, too. She listed a number of faults in me such as the fact that I was disoriented (I was on that day... I got lost on our way to the station, took wrong bus, etc. mainly because I was tired... as I said above), but I think those were all excuses for her to "dump" me.
She also said, "You don't even know what you want! I want a strong man who can listen to me and who speaks to me openly." which I didn't understand initially...

Please note that all this time, even when she visited me, she never spoke about her 'official' relationship, and she had never told me anything about him. Only that one day before she came she told me 'I'm in a wonderful relationship.' No details. Just that one phrase. When she told it, I also reacted quite indifferently.

Perhaps I should have shown more curiosity about that relationship and asked/talked more about it?

Quote :

If she was exposed to you frequently, in person, it would be one thing, but if it's all online or through text, that's different. If she chooses not to respond, there's not a whole lot you can do. Obviously a girl will be more likely to respond if there is some huge DESIRE on her part to respond for some specific reason.

Although it's difficult, there are two ways I could try contacting her indirectly. Firstly, we still have several friends and acquaintances in common.
One of these friends (a classmate of hers), whom I was in regular contact with in the past few years, randomly used to tell me 'She just keeps talking about you all the time.' (during the years I and her had not been in touch), which was an additional reason why I thought there could have been something more serious between us...
I usually never involve other people when it comes to romance, but since he was so eager to tell me, I could ask him some information, or indirectly make him tell her anything about me that might possibly re-awaken her DESIRE.

Second way is to send her these signals through changes on my Facebook profile (she uses Facebook very frequently, and complained about the fact that I never put my photos).

Thanks again!

P.S.: A possible "long-term solution" I was considering about would behave like a PUA so that I can at least awaken her desire. As I told, I am in fact in a very non-PUA mood, especially because of close encounters with death and illness in the recent months. Let's say that I'm not very willing to "enjoy random sex" as I used to when I was a teenager, and somehow am more focused on accomplishing my life/career goals.

The girl seems to have some issues of her own. Someone who gets in a relationship with a married man thirty years her senior and doesn't tell her closest friends (then uses them to cheat on the same guy) clearly isn't as relaxed as I'd expect "the perfect female PUA" to be. My take is that you should think less of how you can salvage your own benefits and more of what may be going on with her. And yes, I would suggest looking for other girls at the moment - I'm not saying to "give up" on HER, simply don't let HER be the reason you give up on every other girl. Get comfortable around other women in general, and you'll be more comfortable with her too (not to mention, more relaxed, less "sour" and able to make a more considered decision). Besides, if a "serious relationship" is what you're looking for, I'm not sure that sticking with a girl who so nonchalantly cheats on her current partner is a very promising idea!

As for your primary questions, WELL! I'm a rookie pick-up artist so I need more time to gauge, but there's going to be a test for it this new year's. I'm going to a party and I'll meet a girl I've spent three university years lusting after without doing anything. I'm going to be running game on her and see what happens. If you want your questions answered, then stick around these boards after new year's. I might just post a field report.

OK, Thinkerbell, this guy is her sugar daddy and her bad boy, I'm guessing, at this point. But obviously she's still not getting herself fulfilled with him. What is he NOT giving her? What was she looking for from you?

Can you find the answer to that?

Yes, obviously you still need to find other girls as well at this point, but if you want to actually understand what was going on here, these are a couple of questions to figure out. Maybe your mutual friends can clue you in to these answers. Without you being obvious about it.

Skotos wrote:

The girl seems to have some issues of her own. [...] My take is that you should think less of how you can salvage your own benefits and more of what may be going on with her. [...]

Hmmm... I am fascinated by issues, and I'd be most pleased to interpret them... Sometimes there's a right key to interpret them

You are right I guess.

I re-read some of my chat conversation with her and get the feeling that there were indeed a few moments in which she seemed to try revealing something... She also often emphatically wrote to me that she felt she could tell me anything, that we understand each other, that whenever she spoke with me "words come alone".

However, as a rule of thumb, probably because I feared revealing what I discovered, I always instinctively tried to avoid talking about "him", even when she tried to go in that direction. I didn't have the same confidence/courage to openly ask her as we used to when we were at school times.
I thought it might embarrass her.
I thought it might ruin the atmosphere between her and me.
And, mainly because this time I had the mentality of pursuing a "serious relationship", I was focused on my own benefits and generally followed the rule of "not speaking about previous/other relationships". I believe that's exactly why I probably dealt the wrong cards and snapped "out of rapport".
There were moments in which she asked "Would you be jealous of me if...?", and I just stayed aloof.
Perhaps she expected me to stay cool and actually talk about him...

Would this explanation make sense, in your opinion?

Quote :

I'm going to be running game on her and see what happens. If you want your questions answered, then stick around these boards after new year's. I might just post a field report.

That's great man! Good luck! I'll look out for your report.

"Would you be jealous of me if . . . " . . . ThinkerBell, you SHOULD have answered those questions. You should have said "nope, sure wouldn't be." Then look at her for her response and gauge from there.

Yeah, you're right. I think I either sounded unsecure or aloof...

As a matter of fact she hasn't replied to nether my Christmas nor my New Years' greetings. It is traditional in my country to always reply to them, regardless of whether you are romantically involved or not...

I'm so scared that I don't understand her behavior anymore.

I thought for a long time, and think that I am ready to move on. However, I think I could move on with a more peaceful mind if before anything I could just simply talk to her. And clarify things.
Any channel of communication, just to talk to her again, would be ok for me.

Any suggestions on how to get her to talk?

Another question regarding the general thread:
- Do you think that in getting back with a "woman from the past" (ex-girlfriends, girls who rejected you, etc.) attraction is more important than anything else, at least at the first stage?
What I mean is that before letting them evaluate anything about our values and personality, do you think what they look at most is our attractivity?

I wouldn't force communication at this point, especially since you've contacted her twice over the holidays and she has ignored it all.

Yes, attraction is a HUGE factor with women from your past, if the woman already knows you and you at one point had some kind of comfort built there. If that's not the case, then comfort would have to be built as well.

But, then again, attraction is a HUGE factor when picking up any girl. Without that attraction, you ain't getting beyond the friend's zone.

Update

Hi again. I am back in the right mood since some time and have been focusing on other things in my life for long enough. I keep realizing that during the months (and the few days before she came to visit me) I was extremely "not myself" and what she experienced was really not me... I am capable of "being" more than that, and numerous women have confirmed it to me in the past weeks. Yet, I realize that her specific case is a totally unconventional ground to me and perhaps to everyone else; whatever I will do, I'll probably be the first.

This is what happened: After about two months of "no contact" her mother added me on face book. I thought it was a fake user but used several IT methods to ascertain that it isn't the girl, and am 90% sure it is the mother. Now, as a background info I have to mention that I rarely use the public features of face book and, in appearance, it seems that I never use it, and log in like only once every week.
I also wanted to keep my mind clear from the whole story for a while so I didn't immediately accept her friend request. I waited a few days after valentines' day and the girls' birthday (didn't wish her) before accepting the mother.
Before that, I also explored the girls' face book profile (which I hadn't looked at all this time, again, in order to keep my mind clear) and noticed that ever since the mother is also on the website, she has removed several photos in which she is with Him (the politician/business man) in slightly romantic contexts, but added several photos of a very much older date in which she and her mother are at dinner with other people including Him. So also the mother knows the sugar daddy, though I cannot say whether she knows about their relationship.

I accepted the mothers' friend request, and a few minutes later the mother wrote on my wall, "You are so beautiful!!!!!" which literally caught me off guard (I was expecting some sort of scolding or warning).

I honestly feel this is a very weird situation. Should I try asking the mother for clarifications, by directly telling everything that happened and asking what she knows? Or perhaps even make some ironic references to the business man?
Or could it be a trick to test whether I am still hurt because the whole story, and whether I am able to keep secrets?

Hold on, first of all, do NOT go into all the details of the girls' last visit. The "mother" may or may NOT know about that.

If this is her mother, it sounds like she may prefer you to be with her daughter . . . or maybe she likes you herself. Hard to say at this point.

Just ask her how her daughters doing. Go from there.